small dog breeds/dogs suitable for an apartment (update p 6)

[Walden]

Starlings also eat a large number of Japanese beetle grubs, a greater pest, so they have one redeeming quality.

Sorry, but there is no justification for free roaming Felis silvestris catus the only terrestrial predator that kills just for fun other than Homo ambulens.
Great Horned Owls and Barred Owls like kitties though.

Free roaming cats were here before you were, and likely will be after.

[Redwolf]

Respectfully:

don't do it (although I am sure you will argue this one into the ground)

just the fact that you are young, "ill", have no family support, are single, in college, live in an apartment, don't have much resources, gosh, what else?????

be happy with your snake, it doesn't need attention, only needs to be fed occasionally, doesn't need to be cleaned up after very often and you can leave it alone when you are bored with it.

This is not to diminish anyone here who has encouraged you, or you yourself. Just PLEASE think this one through

(my college age son just picked up a kitten. he has brought it home innumerable times for vet visits already, *paid for by Mom* and it is coming home with him in March so it can be spayed. He loves his kitten, but if something ever came up, I WOULD KEEP IT FOR HIM!!!!! I am not opposed to pets of any kind, but I am IN A POSITION TO CARE FOR THEM. I love animals, was a biology major, and we already have many pets at our house. Just not a dog. Too much work)

M

Those are all important points. Most people don't think of it (which is terribly sad), but dogs are as expensive to keep as children, and almost as much work. Even just thinking of a year's worth of good-quality food and preventative veterinary care (innoculations, dental maintenance, heartworm preventative, etc.) can be daunting, but when you stop to think about how much emergency medical can cost, it can get scary, especially if you're living on a fixed income and have no savings. Last year, I spent more than $3000 to repair my dog's torn ACL (torn cruciate ligaments are the most common canine injury), and several hundreds of dollars more in physical therapy. When my Cedar was 12, a mysterious and devastating illness, which turned out to be due to a blockage that didn't show up on X-ray, had him in intensive care for a week, with multiple lab tests, X-rays, ultrasounds and exploratory surgery...more than $2000 (and that was back in 1999). Just a regular annual checkup, vaccination series and heartworm test can set you back more than $300. These aren't things you can neglect...in fact, in many states, it's ILLEGAL not to provide adequate veterinary care for your animals. They are 100% dependent on you for their health and well-being, and you are both legally and morally responsible to see that they get whatever they need.

Even a quiet, "couch-potato" type of dog needs regular walks, socialization, mental stimulation and training...all of which are very time-consuming. Dogs are pack animals, and suffer if left alone for long periods of time, which means that, if you can't be with the dog for a significant chunk of the day, you need to provide him with companionship. And if something happens that you can't provide for his needs, you're legally and morally obligated to see to it that he's provided with a suitable new home...being poor, or ill, or overwhelmed are not excuses for neglecting the welfare of a creature that depends entirely on you.

Cranberry, if I were you, I'd pick up a couple of dog books, and take a serious look at what it takes to care for a dog over its lifetime (which, depending on the breed, can be pretty long...my Cedar lived to be 18 1/2), both in terms of money and in terms of time and work. Talk to vets in your area and get the cold, hard facts about what it will cost you to keep a dog for a year. Find out what average costs are for emergency vet services (such as emergency surgery) as well as for annual maintenance costs. If you can't say, with confidence that, as far as you know, you can provide all that, please don't get a dog. Granted that none of us knows what the future may bring, and anyone can fall on hard times, still, if you KNOW that you're not likely to have the kind of money or stamina to provide a dog with what it needs to be healthy and happy, it would be irresponsible in the extreme to get one.

Redwolf

[dwest]

[Walden]

They're an introduced species that is devastating multiple species from birds to reptiles and have driven to extinction multiple species around the globe and likely the greatest recent cause of species extinction outside of habitat destruction.

Same can be said of humans, but I'm not leading a crusade to keep them indoors.

[dwest]

[Walden]

Cats pose no greater threat, overall, in this continent than did the panthers, wolves, and other native predators, that humans displaced. The main devastation caused by domesticated cats has been in Australia and surrounding areas, where the native wildlife were not suited to such predation.

[Ronbo]

It's probably just because I've been reading a bunch of Ayn Rand for a philosophy class, but that's how the House Sparrow strikes me: as a kind of Ayn Rand. It aims for success, achieves it, kills many others on its way there, and doesn't care.

If that is what you are getting from reading Ayn Rand, you are missing most of what she is writing about. You would do well to read her books a little more carefully. And be prepared to put in some sweat to find out what she is really saying.

I'm reading for assignment, not pleasure reading (I don't see how you could read such a thing for pleasure, personally). I"m told to remember and regurgitate X, so that's what I try to do.

Chirp, chirp.

I remember college, also, faintly. So much that you are required to read that you just gloss through it to make a grade. Hang onto those books and reread them when you get some time. You will find more than a fair share of wisdom in them.

[HDSarah]

I"m told to remember and regurgitate X, so that's what I try to do.

How very sad. In a philosophy class, even more than all other disciplines, I'd expect the emphasis to be on understanding and critically examining the reading, not rote regurgitation.

I got a B.A. in philosophy, but would never have developed my love for the subject if it had been taught in the manner you are experiencing. I hope you get better teachers next term!

[s1m0n]

Free roaming cats were here before you were, and likely will be after.

Depends what you mean by "cats". Felis domesticus / felis sylvestris [gotta be the inspiration for Sylvester the puddy tat] is an old world animal. The closest new world species is the bobcat, which is twice the size.

[dwest]

[Walden]

Felis domesticus / felis sylvestris [gotta be the inspiration for Sylvester the puddy tat] is an old world animal. The closest new world species is the bobcat, which is twice the size.

I never intended to imply otherwise.

I would disagree. The native predators did not have the impact on native bird populations like the house cat does. The larger predators you mention were/are rarely interested in smaller birds and then only as an opportunistic prey.

I mention those two because they were literally driven out, but it is true that in some areas the cougar preyed pretty heavily on small birds.

The smaller terrestrial predators such as bobcats, lynx, foxes, are much more interested in smaller mammals as prey items. A number of the Mustelides, raccoons, and that weird little marsupial,(I saw one just recently, where was it? ) will hunt birds but not in the same numbers or as efficiently as cats mostly because they are opportunistic hunters.

Stinkin' birds *mutter mutter* disturbin' sleep *mutter*.

Again on four continents world wide house cats are the single greatest cause of bird extinction outside of habitat destruction. When looking at extinction in island habitats they sometimes outstrip habitat destruction.

Do you care to prove this?

I don't use the word "crusade," it seems to have a slightly negative Christian religious tone.

You prefer negative tone of some other religion?

What I am talking about is taking responsibility our pets and their impact on our wild animal populations. Little different than a "crusade." This is about seeking balance.

We'll be glad to have lots of cats next bubonic or bird flu pandemic.

[s1m0n]

Again on four continents world wide house cats are the single greatest cause of bird extinction outside of habitat destruction. When looking at extinction in island habitats they sometimes outstrip habitat destruction.

The norway rat places in this race, too--especially on islands--and in australia the cane toad's also having an effect.

[Bubbie]

Respectfully:

don't do it (although I am sure you will argue this one into the ground)

just the fact that you are young, "ill", have no family support, are single, in college, live in an apartment, don't have much resources, gosh, what else?????

be happy with your snake, it doesn't need attention, only needs to be fed occasionally, doesn't need to be cleaned up after very often and you can leave it alone when you are bored with it.

M

Hi, Cranberry. I TOTALLY agree with what WD said above. I don't know if you ever had a dog when you were younger, but they are a major responsibility. If you get a puppy, it's really not much different than having a toddler running around the apartment and you'll learn real quick what it means to baby proof or dog proof the place. Everything that's not a dog toy needs to be constantly out of reach - leave a sweater, shoes, books, termpaper lying within reach of those razor sharp teech and the item is history. If it's not socialized properly, even adult dogs behave like that, or if they are bored or feeling neglected. Some dogs cry and bark at all hours - not good for getting along with the neighbors. What happens if she gets sick and needs to go to the bathroom every couple of hours around the clock? You're up at 2 in the morning taking her outside in the rain and snow or she uses your home as her personal toilet. How much does dog food cost? If you feed her the wrong thing, or if she gets into something she shouldn't then she'll get sick - see above for the fun of having a dog with loose bowels. Most breeds shed. That means dog hair (lots of it) on the sofa, carpeting or rugs and on your clothing when you sit down if you're not constantly cleaning. Dogs need to be groomed and bathed regularly or they smell bad. They need periodic vaccinations; they get fleas and ticks and heartworm if you don't give them the proper medicine. Unlike your other pets, they can't survive in a bowl or a box.

All of the above is what you have to do for a dog that is reasonably healthy. If she develops some chronic illness then you're talking about a LOT of money and time being spent on your new friend. I think that in a short period of time you may begin to put dogs into that special category you have reserved for roommates and boyfriends. And THAT would be sad for the dog.

[Flyingcursor]

[quote="Congratulations"]
Roommates SUCK. Boyfriends are WORK.

[quote]

Don't you have that backward?

[Congratulations]

Roommates SUCK. Boyfriends are WORK.

Don't you have that backward?

Ideally, yes. Pragmatically...