An Open Letter to Newbies...

[anniemcu]

Bubbie, check your PMs.

[Cayden]

I know, the notation is full of errors, that's how it is on the net. You have to take it how you find it.

[anniemcu]

... I know, the notation is full of errors, that's how it is on the net. You have to take it how you find it.

Cluck, cluck. The Hens March to the Middens. You're cute, Peter.

Guinness wrote:
Bubbie wrote:
listen to 'em play before you swallow what they say.

The fundamental issue is "free advice" and implicit to that is, "you get what you pay for".

I wasn't refering to the free advice as much as I was to the issue of people who played as poorly as I did passing themselves off as experts by talking with authority and citing how long they have been playing [around with] the whistle. I made the mistake of listening to her tell me how poorly I played and unlearning what, it turns out had been the CORRECT way of playing, and picking up some bad habits because she listened to my recording and said what I was doing was wrong. Then I had to go back and unlearn the bad habits and relearn the correct way. What a total utter waste of time that was! This was an old hen who talked about playing the tin whistle in her own band and having a regular chair at sessions. That meant a LOT to me because around here if you don't play top notch then they don't permit you to sit in at sessions, and I mistakenly believed her taking part like that was a sign of her knowledge and abilities. I later learned that it was she who started the sessions with some of her friends. Another lesson to be learned is start your own session, but the musicians I know already take part in the established session and there were no responses to the ads I ran for people who might be interested in such a venture. The silver lining to my tale of woe: I unlearned her suggestions and now play well enough that the gang lets me sit in on their sessions.

When I hear her give recomendations on whistles from a whistle tour I'm reminded of an episode of Seinfeld. There is a tennis pro that scoffs at Jerry for picking a cheap racket and convinces him to purchase an expensive racket because it's what the pro uses. Jerry shells out the cash for the more expensive racket then later sees the "pro" playing tennis. The pro is terrible at the game, looking more like he is swatting at invisible flys rather than actually making contact with the ball. Jerry then naturally feels like he was duped. And that, my friends, is something I can relate to all too well. twisted

Wow. I've 'laid a few eggs' in my time, but hopefully, that doesn't make me 'an old hen'.

I am assuming you are probably referring to me. I match the "playing the tin whistle in her own (sic) band and having a regular chair at sessions" part, and the "started the sessions with some of her friends", part, and even giving reviews of "whistle they played with on a whistle tour". And I certainly am prone to posting when people ask for advice. I may even match the 'old' part, having passed the 50 mark a couple of years ago. I hope I do not, however match the tone you seem to feel I used on your playing. (Now, insult someone on the boards, or try to imply that there is only one way to play, and yes, I can sound mother-henish) I make it a point to not insult people's playing, as I think that is not just wrong for less than expert players, but even for experts to do. If you feel that I insulted you about your playing, I apologize profusely.

If, indeed, you are referring to me, please consider that you may well have misinterpreted what I said. If I gave you the impression that I was anything other than another learning whistler, it was certainly not intended. My post count here is high, but that's because I talk a lot, not because everything I say is a 'gem'. I hope you will not just summarily dismiss me because you found out your *impression* of me as an expert was erroneous.

I have never claimed to be an expert whistler at all, and frequently point out the fact that *although* I did *start* playing it 30 years ago (good catch Peter), I have only been seriously playing the whistle for a little over 4 years now, and wish I had put more effort into it earlier. I have been participating here on the C&F boards for that same time period, and I have learned a great deal here. I have also gained a lot at the few workshops I've had the privilege to attend over the last three years, which I am happy, and likely, to share. I still am not even remotely an expert and probably will never consider myself one.

It's been two of those four years since I posted any whistle recordings on C&F, while the few I have posted to 'Whistle This' are at least a year old, and tunes I didn't know well, so anything you do find from me is indicative of my abilities at that time. I have indeed been putting that time into practicing. I am still learning, and know I am not particularly high on the skill levels available here. I am still willing to share what I *do* know, and what I *think*, when asked.

By the way, those whistle reviews are always honest, from my own perspective, and I have never presented them as expert. The whistle makers send the whistles to all sorts of players to get the view of ... well... all sorts of players. If they only wanted experts, I'm sure I would never have gotten on any of them. Luckily, that's not the case. I do play whistle with a band, and at our session (which I have pointed out on more than one occasion is not a stereotypical ITM session, but a combined Old Time and Celtic music 'jam' session), however, my primary instrument is the upright bass (on which I am also not an 'expert').

I'm sorry we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot. I think you must be the one person who either emailed or PM'd me asking for critique on a tune. If I failed to state in my response that I am not an expert, then it was the one time, as my friends and family get quite tired of me doing so. I would not have purposely misled you for the world. I know all too well that to do so is to set oneself up for a mighty big fall.

Sincerely,
Sarah (anniemcu)

P.S. - Note my new signature line. No-one should make that mistake again.

[Bubbie]

[Wow. I've 'laid a few eggs' in my time, but hopefully, that doesn't make me 'an old hen'.
- - - - - - - - -
I'm sorry we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot. I think you must be the one person who either emailed or PM'd me asking for critique on a tune. If I failed to state in my response that I am not an expert, then it was the one time, as my friends and family get quite tired of me doing so. I would not have purposely misled you for the world. I know all too well that to do so is to set oneself up for a mighty big fall.

Sincerely,
Sarah (anniemcu)

P.S. - Note my new signature line. No-one should make that mistake again.

You have given a very heart-felt (and lengthy ) apology here and in your private messages to me. Thank you.

[WyoBadger]

My advise to those new to the whistle: HAVE FUN!

My, but some of us do forget that one, don't we!
Tom

[anniemcu]

My advise to those new to the whistle: HAVE FUN!

My, but some of us do forget that one, don't we!
Tom

Yes. It's the best advice available.

[WyoBadger]

I have five rules in my music classroom. #1 is "Have Fun." Because that is, afterall, the goal of all other rules which may exist in music.



Tom

[Pyroh]

P.S. - Note my new signature line. No-one should make that mistake again.

You know, I've played a whistle on TV, yet I don't feel like an expert either

[Pyroh]

On the flute forum there has been a drive to get people to add a sound clip to their signature line. Originally it was suggested I think that would act as a sort of credential but that has been softened a bit. That could work although there are always a few who feign they can't record themselves despite assertions they are themselves convinced they can play their way out of a paper bag. There are also a few people who do have good insight and a way with words to bring that across but are maybe not examples of virtuosity. But as the supermarket advertising says: every little helps.

Wow, that´s a totally magnificent idea I think...what to do it here too? I mean - not everyone has to do it, but it would help with orientation, I think. And if the Undisputed one PM'd people with this information, I believe that many people would do it (I sure would, but to be the only one looks like boasting - and I don´t feel I play well enough to boast with it yet ).

[Cayden]

Well, the idea of adding credibility is one angle but it's a nice idea to show people where you are at and it is a gentle way of keeping the forums music oriented. Listening to clips of some you can get a nice idea, pick up a new tune etc. It's a good way of showing each other your music with the added benefit of you getting an impression of how posters put what they preach in practice.

Some posters on the flute forum have a few tune link in their sig line but there's also a dedicated sticky thread with links, both sound and youtube/video clips linked, and comments. There is little in the way of giving out and some nice exchanges of comments and suggestions. The other (whistle, pipes) forums could do worse than implementing something similar.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

...it's a nice idea to show people where you are at and it is a gentle way of keeping the forums music oriented. Listening to clips of some you can get a nice idea, pick up a new tune etc...

...there's also a dedicated sticky thread with links, both sound and youtube/video clips linked, and comments. There is little in the way of giving out and some nice exchanges of comments and suggestions. The other (whistle, pipes) forums could do worse than implementing something similar.

As a newbie that knows so little about the whistle that I can't even pretent to be an expert I think the comments Peter is stating here are spot on. I listen to many of the links people put on the forum to hear new tunes, listen to different whistle and generally have some enjoyment. There is some really good stuff here!

From following the Flute sticky, it seems to be constructive and useful. I know that I don't play well enough at the moment to put up a link to my playing, but one of my whistle goals for the year is to post some links to my playing when I have been playing for 6 months. Silly? I don't know, but it gives me a goal to work towards, and now that I have made it public, a responsibility to try to achieve it. I don't have any other whistle players, or even other ITM instrument players, around me so the forum is very valuable.

So hopefully at the end of June I'll be confident/brave enough to put a link to some of my tune and get some constructive feedback.

[anniemcu]

I think the 'posting samples' thing is great.

I suggest that there are two key points to consider if we want to avoid the usual pitfalls:

Posting - folks should not post if they aren't willing to hear any criticism at all.

Commenting - folks should refrain from making sarcastic comments. Offer constructive criticism, not just criticism.



(Now if I can just overcome the crappyness of my current low-rent recording set up... if not the crappyness of my playing. )

[sbfluter]

I put links to my clips in my signature line. I've only had people be mean to me once. And you know what? They don't live my life and don't see the fun I have or the welcoming I get at the session I attend, so their comments don't matter. Just because people play better than you is no proof that they know best either, you know?

Other than that one negative experience, people have been very nice and have given me honest feedback politely. It's nothing to be scared of.

[narrowdog]

Diane,
I think your playings great,can't think why anyone would criticise it.
I wish I had the guts to post a clip myself,maybe in 6 months or so

Cheers

[Cayden]

I've only had people be mean to me once

Hold on there: you should clearly explain the context in which people were 'mean' to you: you posted a thread advocating the use of sheet music in the course of which it was mentioned, by me, that your clips showed, contrary to what you said in your thread, you had not (yet) gained an understanding of the music you are playing. This was in the context of you making recommendations about things you have barely started exploring.

Realise there are things you don't know you don't know, which are not in the written music. Your 'credential clips' tell a different story than your post if I may say so and confirm the advise against depending too much on reading while learning.
_________________

You then adapted a sig line along the lines 'listen to my crappy playing' after which I contacted you to say you were being silly, that there was no shame at all in being a beginner (and there isn't, haven't we all been there). I do think (and see above in this thread), beginners (and everybody else for that matter) need to be very careful recommending this or that approach as a perfectly valid one before they are reasonably able to oversee the consequences of their recommendation.

Other than that, you sound like a beginner making her way through tunes, learning things and finding new things to learn hopefully. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't think many people here will have a go at anyone if they enter the arena and say' I am a beginner this how am I doing things right now and what do you think?'.