C nat (second octave) on a keyless flute

[Flutern]

Hi everyone,

I've been silently reading the board for a while but I've finally found a question to ask .

I've been learning the flutes for a few months, focusing almost exclusively on the lowest octave. I'm now working on the second octave, but I can't find a satisfying for high C nat. The best fingering on my flute for low C is oxx xox. In the second octave, it is deadly sharp. I've tried to finger low F nat and hit the 12th: it works more or less but it doesn't seem to be a viable approach, for obvious reasons. The best I can get so far is oxx xxo, which is still sharp . Does anyone have any suggestion, or shall I stick with this for now?

Thanks for your insights

Julien

[Denny]

OXO ???

[Terry McGee]

Try these: oxo xxx, oxo oxx, oxo xxo, oxo ooo.

Starting from an F natural isn't easy on a keyless flute! But that approach will work on a keyed flute, venting L2 to veto the lower optional notes. I.E: xox xx,o (using short F) or xox xx'o (using long F).

I like oxx xox for middle c nat. Just one finger away from d (oxx xxx). oxx xxo is usually used for third octave A (when you get really adventurous!)

Terry

[irish69]

For now I wouldn't worry about the high C. There are really only a few tunes that go up that high.

[Denny]

aw, come on Terry....I stole the ??? from your site!

[Flutern]

Thanks all for your swift answers. I'll try these tomorrow.

For now I wouldn't worry about the high C. There are really only a few tunes that go up that high.

Actually, it's scales and long tones that I had in mind .

[Terry McGee]

For now I wouldn't worry about the high C. There are really only a few tunes that go up that high.

Ah, but you miss the point. It's perhaps the one area that's dead easy on the flute but tricky on the fiddle. We need to learn every tune that has a high Cnat to crank up the Fiddle Player Squirm Index!

One of the mightiest is "Trim the Velvet", an absolute must-have for the flute player:

X:2
T:Trim the Velvet
R:reel
S:Mary Bergin
H:Similar to "Kiss the Maid behind the Barrel", #549
D:Mary Bergin: Feadoga Stain 2.
Zhn-reel-2
M:C|
K:G
~G3B AGFD|GBdB BAFA|~G3B AGFA|defd cAFA|
~G3B ~A3c|BcdB BAFA|~G3B AGFA|defd cAFA||
dgeg dg~g2|dedB cAFA|dgeg dg~g2|defd cAFA|
d3e dBGB|dGBd cAFA|dgeg dg~g2|defd cAFA||
~g3a bgaf|g2ab c'baf|g2af g2af|defd cAFA|
~g3a bgaf|g2ab c'ba2|bg~g2 af~f2|defd cAFA||
BGdG BG~G2|(3BAG dB cAFA|BGdG BG~G2|defd cAFA|
BGdG BG~G2 |DGBd cAFA|~B3G c2ce|defd cAFA||

Terry

[jemtheflute]

We need to learn every tune that has a high Cnat to crank up the Fiddle Player Squirm Index!

Good idea, Terry. While we're at it, have you any ideas for quelling "Fiddlers' Leg Syndrome"? (You know, that huge driving stomp so many of 'em seem to do - not just a foot-tap, more of a mastodon herd thing......)

Slightly more seriously, I have often been puzzled since I became active online - on C&F etc. - at this seemingly common attitude among ITM players that going above 2nd 8ve B is somehow 1) difficult, 2) forbidden territory, 3) horribly piercing on flutes and whistles. As Terry says, the instruments go there easily - if you include the full two 8ve range in your approach to them from the start, there's no special difficulty or mystery, and they are not hard to make sound pleasant - and you don't have to be a highly trained virtuoso or a serious Classical player to go well into the 3rd 8ve quite readily. There's also a reasonable amount of music that takes you there - not a huge quantity, but it's definitely there, like the tunes in "awkward" keys and the ones that go "off the bottom" of flutes and whistles - and that last is another area where, in adapting low-range fiddle/box tunes for flute/whistle by shifting sections up the 8ve, the higher range can often come in handy.

[Akiba]

FWIW--I use the OXX OOO fingering even though it is a bit more muted in sound than the OXO XXO or OXO XXX. I find that OXX OOO on my flutes is slightly flat, so it forces me to adjust my embouchure sharp. So when I do this, I'm playing my C nat the same way I have to play C#--bringing the pitch up on both notes to get them in tune/close to in tune. Then if I'm playing in the keys of G/A dor I'm making the same embouchure adjustment at the same place on the flute as when I'm playing in D/E dor. Just seems more consistent to me.

[Akiba]

Sorry, my bad...I'm of course talking of 1st octave C, not 2nd octave. Rewind, erase.

[mcdafydd]

Here's another nice tune that ventures up high. I couldn't remember the name of it and had to search for the ABC string in Google as "c'3 bd'b age a2a". Worked like a charm!

X: 1
T: Winnie Hayes'
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Ador
|: edB ~A2A | BAA ABd | edB ~A2A | BAG Bdd |
edB ~A2A | BAG A2a | age deg | age dBA :|
|: efg ~a2a | bag a2g | e2a aea | ~b2b gab |
c'3 bd'b | age a2a | age deg | age dBA :|

[jemtheflute]

That's a grand tune, mcdafydd - and it certainly goes there well enough, but I learnt it from players at my local sesh and they/we always play it in E Dorian - much mellower, though without the opportunity to use those higher notes! I don't know what source the guy who introduced it to the session got it from, but I have noticed that most settings of it on ABC sources give it where you do.

[johnkerr]

For now I wouldn't worry about the high C. There are really only a few tunes that go up that high.

Actually, it's scales and long tones that I had in mind .

Actually, playing long tones on a high C would be a <i>great</i> embouchure exercise. Strive to play them as softly as possible while keeping them up to pitch. You might not want to do this if you have dogs in the neighborhood, though.

[jim stone]

I'm use the high C natural a good deal, in fact.
A fair number of tunes go there, including
aires. e.g. she moved through the fair.

It's easy to get and play too, though I reckon I've
forgotten what it took initially to get it.

0X0 XXX or the key.

[Terry McGee]

aw, come on Terry....I stole the ??? from your site!

Heh heh, Denny, my post wasn't a clarification, expansion or criticism of yours, it was being cooked at the same time. You just found a more concise form of presentation! Put it down to "Great Minds Think Alike".

(No one needs to be so churlish as to observe that "Fools Never Differ".)

Terry