Middle D

AlexDylan · Post by **AlexDylan** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 8:38 am

How should the Middle D be fingered. Do most use OXX XXX. I always played it using
XXX XXX but I recieved a whistle where the mid D breaks apart with the XXX XXX fingering. Is it possible to send the whistle back to tweak it for the XXX XXX fingering or should I just relearn with the
OXX XXX

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:07 am

OXX XXX is the most common fingering for second octave D. You CAN play D with XXX XXX, however, it's not as clear in tone, and isn't as stable...hence the tendancy to squeak sometimes.

The higher pressure needed for the second octave requires different fingerings for several different notes ie: Cnat. and other accidentals.

I'd recommend you try to learn the OXX XXX method, and then switch off between the two. See what works for you, your playing style, and the particular whistle you're playing. It'll take a little time to get used too, but once you get it, it'll feel as natural a bottom D.

B~

raindog1970 · Post by **raindog1970** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:12 am

While most whistle fingering charts recommend OXXXXX I have always used XXXXXX.
I have quite a collection of whistles, and I have yet to run into one that I have had any trouble with while using this method.
Using XXXXXX does require blowing a little harder than OXXXXX.
Mind if I ask what brand of whistle you're having problems with?

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 10:46 am

I have trouble with my Susatos using XXXXXX. I don't recall offhand if my Dixons have trouble, but I don't think they do.

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:03 am

I went to the All-Ireland Fleadh this summer and watched all the flute and whistle competitions. At one point the head judge spoke to the audience and competitors and said, very firmly, that middle D IS fingered 0XXXXX and that those playing it XXXXXX would have technical points taken off. She said that XXXXXX is out of tune. She also made a point of not leaving the F# finger down when playing notes above G.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 12:33 pm

Am I the only one who has problems believing that a judge can actually see the diff between oxxxxx and xxxxxx during something like a driving polka or a good snappy reel? When I lift fingers, I do it as little as possible to get a decent tone.

Beyond that, sound quality should be the only measure of a musician, IMHO. If someone can hear a problem, that's one thing, but 'technical flaw' is hogwash. And besides, I play for pleasure, not competition.

mike.r · Post by **mike.r** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 1:10 pm

Whistle tuning is too subjective an issue to lay claim to one fingering as superior over another.Whatever happened to the untrained close enough is good enough norm that was once so important in folk music.I dont recall Pete seegers banjo ever being perfectly in tune nor a Bert Jansch vocal.Its all becoming so perfect and classical sounding and if we really want our whistles to play perfect C nat's and D's every time then we might as well play recorders.Oh, almost forgot... XXX-XXX.Mike

MLK · Post by **MLK** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 1:19 pm

Mike.r I agree with you regarding tune, etc.

Competition is another beast. Having competed in piano for many years (when I was younger) I can say that yes, a judge could possibly see a difference in fingering no matter what speed you're playing at! What the judges want the judges better get!

Meg

JohnPalmer · Post by **JohnPalmer** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 2:28 pm

Hey,

The OXX XXX fingering is also helpful in that you are just one finger lift away from playing an in tune C as OXX OXX (which can actually be a little flat on some whistles).
As for tuning, I have seen buttons that say "Tune It Or Die"! I believe that intonation is very important. And the judges don't have to see if one is playing a D with all fingers down, they can hear it, even on a very fast piece. And just because it is folk music, or someone else plays out of tune, I'm going to do my best to play in tune. There is nothing wrong with wanting to play in tune. -JP

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 2:52 pm

I've just run a quick test with whistles to hand comparing tunning OXXXXX to XXXXXX.
Generation - No difference
Feadog - No difference
Clare - No difference
Clarke Original - OXXXXX 4% sharper
Susato - OXXXXX 5% sharper
Burke - OXXXXX 2% sharper.
Slight air adjustment could bring the D in on any of these whistles no matter which fingering is used. I can't see any justification for favouring one method over the other based on tunning.
There is a slight difference in tone due to air noise from the open hole in OXXXXX but I suspect this is only audible close up.
So I would play what suits you and the tune.
Joe

jmssmh · Post by **jmssmh** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:13 pm

I think I heard somewhere that OXXXXX is more important for flute playing and that flute players who play whistle brought OXXXXX to the whistle world. I perfer XXXXXX. I play whistle because it is simple and you can concentrate learning music more than learning an instrument and having different fingering for low and mid D is too much for me.

Joe

mike.r · Post by **mike.r** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:46 pm

To whistle competition judges...Definition of an expert:X is an unspecified number.Spurt is a drip under pressure.Please let the whistler decide X or O,or you might get a Generation shoved up your po!(sung to the tune of the Irish washerwoman with whistle accompaniment utilising every short cut in the book and tongue firmly planted in cheek);)Mike

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mike.r on 2001-09-28 20:12 ]</font>

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 6:38 pm

I think it can depend on the whistle.
Copeland whistles pitched below C need the top finger up--otherwise the note doesn't
always play. In my experience, anyway. On the other hand, there are ornaments that need all the fingers down to play. No one rule
for every whistle, no one rule for every
ornament. In general the top finger up
is a slightly louder, possibly warmer
tone, all down is in the same pitch, though.

MLK · Post by **MLK** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 7:54 pm

Cute Mike.r!!

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:08 pm

Jim,
Just out of curiousity, what ornament needs all the fingers down to play? The only crans work fine, as do cuts. Am I missing an ornament?
Chris