Session in a Changing Ireland: Volume for its Own Sake

[cocusflute]

The desire and need for volume has skewed the music and the comfort level of many sessions. Christy Barry blames the phenomenon on loud, inattentive patrons. In the old days musicians could play in a pub and the people who wanted to hear came closer to you and those who didn’t moved away. But those who moved away weren’t screaming at each other.
Last week I played with a loud concertina player and a loud fiddler (these were two all-Irelands, well worth hearing), with a guitar player and a bodhranista, in a pub filled with screaming twenty and thirty-somethings. It was a meat-market. That’s fine with me. I’m in favor of people hooking up however they can. But we were playing unamplified acoustic music and we could hardly hear each other unless we played as hard as we could. The music lost a lot of the nyah. There was no chance of nuance. Ornamentation was totally irrelevant here.
Here you had accomplished musicians trying to play louder to overcome the noise. We weren’t “playing,” in the sense of having fun. We just had to make ourselves heard. We more or less went on automatic pilot and played till we had to and then got the hell out. It would have been much better if the pub had been quieter and we could have made more music, not just louder music.
The week earlier we got together with friends down at the local, for free and for fun. The pub wasn’t expecting to make money on the music, as in the other pub. Jennie, from this forum, was visiting. We were all just friends playing for fun, and we didn’t have to be loud. We were there for the music and not for the money. The music was better. Nobody expected us to be loud. We could hear each other and we could listen to each other.
Now I gather that is why many people want louder flutes – so they can hear themselves. But that just leads to louder fiddles and louder music and noisier pubs in general. Pretty soon you’re playing into a mic rather than to or for somebody. That is part of the trouble with modern sessions. They are no longer the quiet friendly affairs that used to obtain, where friends could gather for a pint and a laugh and a tune. Too often the pub has become a workplace and our tools have become loud instruments, valued for the volume they produce rather than for their tone or for their capacity for subtlety of expression.
Those who have too much time on their hands might want to pursue this topic at http://www.concertina.net/forums/index. ... topic=6743.
The topic is “Sessions in a Changing Ireland.”

[Cork]

Great post, I enjoyed reading it.

A meat market, eh? Well, I suppose the patrons had something other than music as a priority on their minds. Moreover, apparently the management is willing to foster whatever atmosphere could be conducive to good business. Unfortunately, when the excitement and noise of the crowd gets going, perhaps the atmosphere for music could suffer, but apparently the management is less concerned about that.

If the noise in that place is not likely to be reduced in the future, then either you and the group are stuck with having to repeat your not so subtle performances, or could consider going amplified. Amplification is an expensive and cumbersome thing to do, but with some adjustment on the part of the group it can be done, and perhaps the management could be willing to tolerate the extra noise thereby generated as perhaps it could enhance their business.

Fortunately, it seems that there are other places to play without amplification, but that might not be an option at the meat market.

[Tony McGinley]

.

Good Post!!!

I have long since tended to avoid pubs when wanting to enjoy music.
It often turns into a decibel battle between players and patrons. You
can notice the same battle take place at other venues especially at
weddings. The volume is racked up - up - up as the night goes on in a
completly vain attempt to subdue the drinking and conversing crowd.

On the other hand, from the perspective of the "crowd", as one who
may have come to enjoy meeting old friends, a drink, and a quiet
conversation, there is the frustration of the audio battle and a very
raw throat to contend with after the evenings decibel contest.

At a summer camp last July, I had the experience of observing the
contrast between a lovely couple of quiet sessions in a back room,
attended by musicians and those really wanting to enjoy the music,
and ones set in a very busy cafe. Suffice it to say I elected to absent
myself from the public venues, as my voice, my patience, and my
mental health were under severe strain.

I love playing with, and listening to, musicians, both active or as
audience. I abhor the waste of good music in the noisy marketplace
or on the great unwashed!!

"Pearls before swine" - But to be fair to pigs, they have no value in
pearls as they cannot be eaten!!


.

[Cayden]

You can ask yourself why you would want to play in a pub full of uninterested drinkers in the first place. I never liked playing in pubs (bar maybe the small and quiet ones), noisy environments are no place for music.

[jemtheflute]

Fortunately my local regular session (in GB) is normally held in quite a small room and, whilst it has poor/odd acoustics that sometimes cause hearing/synchronicity problems, it almost never gets too noisy (save for the music) as when there is a good crew of players in attendence, there is very little room for anyone else, let alone those who don't want to listen (not that we are consistently worth listening to!). The chatterers go in the main bar - a separate room.

Otherwise, I certainly relate to the experiences described by Cocusflute and others above. However, I'd say that Cocus and company are lucky to be in a situation where a landlord is happy to pay them to play at all and in a country that more than most values its indigenous music (yeah, I know very well that large swathes of Eire are ITM-free zones....). In GB it is far more common (licensing law issues aside) for publicans not to welcome a session (or a Folk Club) or to kick one out after trying it for a few weeks because it scares off the regulars! I have seen this happen several times over the years - the regular bar-proppers who actually pay the publican's rent etc. will all too often disappear if the jukebox is turned off, or the television, often after making sarcy comments. Equally, the idea of there being acoustic, or indeed ANY kind of live music at the weekend at a "meat-market" type venue is almost unthinkable. Even venues that seriously promote live acts (and I'm really thinking here about "pop" music - rock, tribute bands, TV talent show spin-off tours etc.)now (in the provinces at least) tend only to do so on weekdays. Friday and Saturday nights are disco only - anything else drives the (sad!!!!!) punters away, plus is more expensive to put on!

[peeplj]

We play sessions in a variety of places (see our session list if you're interested).

Having the Hamilton flute works well for me because it's got real volume when I need it, but in the venues where you don't need a cannon, it still has its lovely ring without blasting away.

--James

[Rob Sharer]

Got to take you to task on one point (big surprise). I resist the notion that the minute the microphones come out, the music stops. For those of us who occasionally find ourseves tasked with providing a bit of diddly for the chattering classes in an official capacity, the microphone is our best friend. It adds a level of complexity to the situation, granted, but having amplification does NOT preclude connecting with your fellow players, or the audience, and playing some music. With any luck, there are monitor speakers specifically to facilitate the players' hearing one another, to foster the communication necessary to get the session off the ground. I can state unequivocally that I've had some wonderful nights of music "on the mic," with everyone involved leaving with a glow indistinguishable from the one you get from a lovely back-room session.

It sure would be great to bring back floggings, the ass and cart, and quiet pubs. Modern Ireland being what it is, however, that's extremely unlikely. The choices are to host sessions at home, find some hole in the wall up a green road, or employ some sound reinforcement. I'm sorry you had a rough one there, but think how a bit of strategically-employed amplification might have improved the experience of everyone involved. Cheers,

Rob

[Cayden]

I don't think the notion that the quest for volume is new and modern is actually right. Volume was the reason whistle players got flutes, the concertina came in and soon after that the accordeon was adopted, there's nothing new there. Why did Julia Clifford take a Stroh fiddle to sessions and did Ceilibands took to safety in numbers?

I do feel the trend here particularly to go on a quest for extra loud whistles and louder instruments in general to over shout other musicians is one that repulses me a good bit.

[jemtheflute]

I don't think the notion that the quest for volume is new and modern is actually right. Volume was the reason whistle players got flutes, the concertina came in and soon after that the accordeon was adopted, there's nothing new there. Why did Julia Clifford take a Stroh fiddle to sessions and did Ceilibands took to safety in numbers?

I do feel the trend here particularly to go on a quest for extra loud whistles and louder instruments in general to over shout other musicians is one that repulses me a good bit.

Peter has a point here. It is/was also of course one of the driving forces of the (especially but not uniquely) C19th pitch-standard rise. Higher pitch = "stronger" and more penetrating....... Anyone for an Eb sesh? (No ta!)

[Gordon]

Got to take you to task on one point (big surprise). I resist the notion that the minute the microphones come out, the music stops. For those of us who occasionally find ourseves tasked with providing a bit of diddly for the chattering classes in an official capacity, the microphone is our best friend. It adds a level of complexity to the situation, granted, but having amplification does NOT preclude connecting with your fellow players, or the audience, and playing some music. With any luck, there are monitor speakers specifically to facilitate the players' hearing one another, to foster the communication necessary to get the session off the ground. I can state unequivocally that I've had some wonderful nights of music "on the mic," with everyone involved leaving with a glow indistinguishable from the one you get from a lovely back-room session.

It sure would be great to bring back floggings, the ass and cart, and quiet pubs. Modern Ireland being what it is, however, that's extremely unlikely. The choices are to host sessions at home, find some hole in the wall up a green road, or employ some sound reinforcement. I'm sorry you had a rough one there, but think how a bit of strategically-employed amplification might have improved the experience of everyone involved. Cheers,

Rob

As an old rocker, I have to agree with you, Rob. Quiet acoustic venues are lovely, but bands still connect with massive amounts of volume around them -- if mikes and PAs override the pub noise, then all has become equal again. If not, well - that's why the Beatles stopped touring.

OTOH, people generally not listening and - worse - even indifferently trying to override -- the musicians, is a real nightmare. Most pubs when I lived in NYC (VT, where I live now, is quite quiet, all 'round) did not allow PA equipment in no matter what the audience volume, which was generally unbelieveably loud. Their money was (is) made on the drinkers, not the music lovers.

Still, Cocusflute's gripe is more than legitimate -- it's a shame, really. I've been in many pubs just as described. But there must be quieter pubs about, somewhere, if a quiet drink and tune between friends is all you're after.

James is right on about Hamiltons, and many other loud but well-made flute -- volume doesn't preclude tone or nuance. Folks looking for a flute simply because of its volume are looking for the wrong attributes in a flute in the first place, and that's a different problem. In accord with Peter's comment, I mostly chose a Hamilton because of pipers and accordian players I was playing alongside, not to override a noisy pub. Now, playing in VT, I'm more likely to switch to a (slightly) quieter flute with smaller holes, for both personal stylistic reasons, and because most of my accompanists are fiddlers and guitars, both of which tend to be quieter than pipes and accordians.

[cocusflute]

Peter said, "I don't think the notion that the quest for volume is new and modern is actually right."
I agree and I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying that noisy pubs is a new phenomenon. Since roughly 1800 venues have been getting larger and noisier and instruments (and orchestras) have been getting larger and more powerful. On some level we are musicians because we like to make noise. However, I believe that Christy is right when he observes that people are increasingly less responsive to unamplified music in quiet venues.

Rob said, "I've had some wonderful nights of music on the mic", and so have I. But that's generally been a concert situation, not an effort to overcome pub chatter. Or pub mayhem, as the case may be. In the instance mentioned a system would only have ratcheted up the noise level.

As an old mercenary bar-room balladeer nobody appreciated the mike more than I did. But my musical interests and values are different now. The Kilfenora and Lunasa are great, sure. But these days I prefer "Island Eddie" or "Tony O'Connell and Andy Morrow."

[Rob Sharer]

I'm sure you and Christy have a point, but what to do? It's a Darwinian view, I know, but as the environment changes, you either adapt or perish. You can change your approach, you can change the venue, but you won't change the punters. Cheers,

Rob

[Cayden]

However, I believe that Christy is right when he observes that people are increasingly less responsive to unamplified music in quiet venues.

I don't think that is completely true either. I do think that a lot of people go the pub to get locked and don't give a fiddler's f*rt about the few people with instruments in the corner. There are people who go out to listen to music, they would be quiet enough and respond well to the music played.

You can't expect pub goers to be quiet and appreciative just because you're there playing I am afraid.

Amplification has it place in certain venues. We used to play a big room in a pub always amplified unless there was only a small crowd during the winter, then we'd sit by the fire. And we always had either Conor Keane or Jackie Daly (and on a few occasion Josie Marsh) to boost our volume a bit.


edit: for godsake can't you even say f*rt here?

[Il Friscaletto]

I like the energy of a lively pub. Ideally, it would always be a nice level of background chatter with the musicians still being able to hear each other well. Unfortunately, in the local session, the pub is fairly small and the acoustics are freakish. I think we sit in some weird acoustic vortex, because when things get noisy, I have trouble hearing the person across from me, but if I walk across them room to the bathroom, I can hear the music loud and clear.

Lately, I've been trying not to play for volume. While I do want to be heard, I don't want to sacrifice nuance. Though I suppose there's not much point in nuance if no one can hear it. Maybe a flutist just needs to develop two modes of playing, to suit loud and quiet environments.

[kenr]

Peter,

The reason Julia Clifford took a Stroh fiddle to the session was she didn't actually own a "normal" fiddle. and actually she didn't blast out a lot of volume on it, especially in her later years.

Ken