The Odd Effects of Room Acoustics on Whistles

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:04 pm

As I've posted before, my wife and I have moved into a large brick duplex because of a hot water flood in our apartment.

Tonight for the first time in a while I had some time to sit and really play a tune or two. I started going through whistles and flutes just to see how they'd sound in the new environment.

Some are pretty much the same, but two whistles blew me away by how much better they sound in this environment: my Generation redtop, which was already a good whistle, is sweet, smooth, and pure. The other really blew me away: my plain old Susato D sounds really really nice in here, smooth, with just a little bite for character--it even sounds a bit mellow.

So I'm going to start giving folks a bit of extra advice when asked about this whistle verses that one: if you don't like your whistle, it may not be the whistle you don't like: try changing rooms or even buildings.

My best to all from a wonderfully clean, dry home,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 11:24 pm

I've noticed this too, James, and with several different kinds of instrument. I'd like to know what is happening here. My guess, just off the top of the head, is that different wall surfaces absorb and reflect some frequencies differently from others. Most of the advice we get on dampening a room or going for echo seems to be general rather than frequency-specific advice. That wouldn't account for the phenomenon you (and I) have experienced.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:11 am

Since I work night shift in a water treatment plant, I can practice without bothering others, and we have one large concrete block room where I like to go for the acoustics. Any tune that sounds average in normal rooms sounds fantastic in that block room. I love playing in there.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:58 am

It's amazing how your surroundings can influence sound. My "improved" sounds great in the house, but it sounds absolutely fantastic out of doors, which strikes me as somewhat surprising (I'd think that it would sound better with walls to bounce off of). On the other hand, I haven't found a whistle yet that sounds good in my car...they all just seem to go acoustically dead in there.

Redwolf

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:50 am

The strange point is that what will make one's whistling acoustics good to us while playing is not what you require from an auditorium--or just a nice listening room for your hi-fi.
Basically, the auditorium should be no-echo, so all the sound you get is from the loudspeakers, and only them.
I tried playing in such a professional hi-fi auditorium. Never had so much chiff, pops and breath, and such a weak volume.
I guess it's related to the fact that the whistler needs some echo to get--how to say ?--acoustic feedback ? Well something of what an audience would hear and not only the fipple window's noise, close to the ears or facial bones.
Generally, it's like having some echo, while cutting down resonant vibrations (from glass, plate-metal, etc.) : mixing your bathroom acoustics with your sitting room's. Or moving the sofa and some paintings and curtains to the bathroom

More seriously, maybe one could use the good hi-fi room (curtains, tapestries, non-resonating floor) plus a microphone at least two meters (that is about 7 ft, I translate for the Serpent who's into avoirdupoids trad

) away, directly hooked to a pre-amp for feedback. I'll try it...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-21 05:06 ]</font>

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:21 am

Ya, my apartment complex has a community room that is usually empty and has super grade-A spiffy wonderful acoustics. It's a separate building too, so there are no neighbors to annoy. Plus it is fabulously air conditioned in the summer.

Talking of which, I'm off to do some laundry and play some chunes.

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:40 am

I've mentioned this before...but I LOVE to play in the bathroom with the shower turned on. The "white noise" from the shower makes all my whistles sound wonderfuly smooth.

I think it must cut out some of the unpleasant harmonics (not sure if I'm using the correct word).

Brett

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:10 am

Me too James. My dining room seems to have a brightening effect on all my whistles and consequently that's where I usually practice. I've built sound studios in the past and done extensive research on acoustics, but haven't pinned down (or even really questioned)why this is the case here as the surfaces of the room box seem the same as most other rooms in the house.

Good point James.

Philo

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:35 am

On 2002-11-21 08:40, Bretton wrote:
I've mentioned this before...but I LOVE to play in the bathroom with the shower turned on. The "white noise" from the shower makes all my whistles sound wonderfuly smooth.

Ever considered moving to Buffalo ?
There, you could play outdoors

Victoria Falls reputedly sound even better, but is it worth actually moving there ?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-21 09:41 ]</font>

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:08 am

Stairwells are fun.

Well, at least until someone from the floors below you yells at you and starts running after you....

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:37 am

On vacation, I took my Sausato into the pool room to watch my son swim.We were alone so I played as loud as I wanted. It sounded great. Even my son, who hates that whistle, liked the sound. Now every time I go to a hotel, I head to the pool room in hopes of finding it empty.

Kar · Post by **Kar** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:41 pm

I played in my high-ceilinged kitchen the other day and it was GREAT! My Dixons didn't sound as good as they do in smaller rooms, but the Chieftain sounded fantastic! I played as loud as I could and wow, I was really happy with it. I too am amazed at what a differece the room/space makes.

I also notice that high D whistles sound MUCH better out of doors than inside, to my mind. They just mellow out and aren't as high and piercing.

Michael Sullivan · Post by **Michael Sullivan** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 5:56 pm

I used to sing in the shower a lot . . . I guess I should try playing there!

Last year when I was in college I used to play in the "pendulum pit", a wide concrete/tiled shaft with a stairwell and a big pendulum for doing physics experiments. It sounded fantastic, even when I was just starting.

Byll · Post by **Byll** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:37 pm

You are all touching upon a phenomenon that is somewhere between science and art. Fabulous amounts of money are spent designing performance halls; acousticians spend hundreds of hours on the projects. Some of these projects succeed and yet many of the halls fail miserably. They end up undergoing expensive renovations in the hope of finding the sonic grail...

Recording studios, large and small, all have sonic signatures. I was fortunate, years ago, when my studio was designed, to have the input of a friend who worked for Clair Brothers, a recording and touring company in Pennsylvania. His input led into areas of floor coverings, acoustic treatments, wiring considerations, furniture materials, HVAC, and the like. This summer, we made the transition from 15 year old, multi-track analog gear, to a hard-disc, full digital configuration. The room remains as it was originally created. It was right from the start, and that has made all the difference. It is the heart of the studio's sound. All else is secondary.

My band plays in lots of venues, including churches. Some of these churches have a sound that is simply glorious... We would play in these rooms for free...In others, the exact opposite is true...We cannot hear each other, even though we are standing only a few feet apart...

Sorry for the rambling...Just my $.02.
Best to all of you on a cold, rainy, Pennsylvania night.
Byll

Cyfiawnder · Post by **Cyfiawnder** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:15 am

Interesting topic here. As I play my whistle at work a lot I do agree that the building materials in the room play a great big role in how a whistle will sound. The desk that I sit at is in a Corner surrounded by stone walls, but there one of the Circular (actually it's square) old fashioned stair ways that goes around and around up all 4 floors, all the wood is either quartered oak or mahagony. Let me tell you That High note in Danny Boy even with a low D will break glass, Theres enough Soft material to absorb the bad sounds, and enough acoustically reflective material to add that wonderful echo. Of course the women where I work (homeless womens shelter) tell me to play something with a beat, and when I play a Jig they call it a polka and go pack upstairs! A Polka of all things... Bah! Kids these days! All the listen to is Hip hop

Course heh I'm still a Kid... be 23 January First....