Need advice from Olwell owners

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:39 am

My boxwood Olwell with the lined head is a freaking foghorn. I think it's a Pratten, but I'm not 100% sure.

My boxwood Murray with the unlined head seems a tiny bit woodier, though the Olwell sounds plenty woody, but the Murray's also more of a Rudall type and just a different animal altogether.

I'm a bit surprised about your concerns with your Cotter's volume. The few I've met have been plenty loud!

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:56 pm

Cathy Wilde wrote:My boxwood Olwell with the lined head is a freaking foghorn. I think it's a Pratten, but I'm not 100% sure.

If it's the one you bought from Josh, then yes it is a Pratten. It's also one hell of a flute. I don't know why Josh ever sold it. Oh, yeah...so he could buy Rob's boxwood Olwell with the unlined head joint. Also one hell of a flute - even after its recent unfortunate cracking and repair. (The cracking was due to impact after rolling off a table, not humidity. Rolling is an unfortunate side effect of owning a keyless flute. Sometimes I think my keys are more valuable as anti-roll stabilizers than for the notes they provide.)

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:21 pm

johnkerr wrote:
Cathy Wilde wrote:My boxwood Olwell with the lined head is a freaking foghorn. I think it's a Pratten, but I'm not 100% sure.
If it's the one you bought from Josh, then yes it is a Pratten. It's also one hell of a flute. I don't know why Josh ever sold it. Oh, yeah...so he could buy Rob's boxwood Olwell with the unlined head joint. Also one hell of a flute - even after its recent unfortunate cracking and repair. (The cracking was due to impact after rolling off a table, not humidity. Rolling is an unfortunate side effect of owning a keyless flute. Sometimes I think my keys are more valuable as anti-roll stabilizers than for the notes they provide.)

That would be the one. It's a monster; the bottom goes on forever! I call it The Box Slayer.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about the accident. That's awful; my sympathies to Josh. At least you guys are close to the Great One for repair and rehab so I suspect it plays as good as new now. And hey, at least that's out of the way (dark positivity, there).

And a hearty amen to your opinion on keys!

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:34 pm

johnkerr wrote:(The cracking was due to impact after rolling off a table, not humidity. Rolling is an unfortunate side effect of owning a keyless flute. Sometimes I think my keys are more valuable as anti-roll stabilizers than for the notes they provide.)

I wonder why makers don't just put a small block on keyless flutes to prevent such misfortunes.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:25 pm

Jay wrote:I'm really looking for a tone that can cut through and enhance/harmonize with the group rather than having an instrument that simply plays loudly.

Jay

90+ % of the tone comes from the player, not the flute. Try handing 3 very "dfferent" flutes to a world class player and you will find they produce virtually identical tone on each flute.

Loren

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:24 pm

Cathy Wilde wrote:My boxwood Olwell with the lined head is a freaking foghorn. I think it's a Pratten, but I'm not 100% sure.

My boxwood Murray with the unlined head seems a tiny bit woodier, though the Olwell sounds plenty woody, but the Murray's also more of a Rudall type and just a different animal altogether.

I'm a bit surprised about your concerns with your Cotter's volume. The few I've met have been plenty loud!

Yes, my Cotter is loud, as mentioned. It's hard to imagine
one that isn't, honestly. It has a big open honking
Pratten sound and it's marvelously in tune. There
is a downside, i think, namely the left hand actually
has a considerable stretch and largish holes
which is something of an issue. Possibly
that is part of the price of the tuning.

It certainly sounds like your Olwell is a Pratten.
Mine has a more focused and reedy sound
than the Cotter--and it is indeed a fog horn.

I would really like to get my fins on a Nicholson.
If anybody would like to sell/trade, please
let me know!

Rob Sharer · Post by **Rob Sharer** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:39 am

How 'bout some clips, lads? Let's hear these foghorns! Cheers,

Rob

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:36 am

Rob Sharer wrote:How 'bout some clips, lads? Let's hear these foghorns! Cheers,

Rob

What we need is someone who's fortunate enough to own a couple of Olwells, perhaps a Nickolson and a Pratten, or throw in a Rudall. That would be an interesting comparison Rob. Same player, same recording equipment...might illustrate the differences between these instruments. Does anyone have this available?

Cathy Wilde wrote:My boxwood Murray with the unlined head seems a tiny bit woodier, though the Olwell sounds plenty woody, but the Murray's also more of a Rudall type and just a different animal altogether.

Cathy, would you say that your Murray has more "bark" than the Olwell. On recordings, I think I hear the Murray's bark a bit more, but that might have to do with differences in playing style more so than the flutes. Also, I think I hear more of a woodier tone in the upper registers of the Murrays, where the Olwells have cleaner high notes.

Jay

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:10 am

Did you miss what Loren said? I'll say it again:

90+ % of the tone comes from the player, not the flute. Try handing 3 very "different" flutes to a world class player and you will find they produce virtually identical tone on each flute.

Americans tend to be into equipment rather than technique. Why is this?

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:06 am

I agree with Jim. I have PO flutes with both unlined head and lined. The sound with the unlined head is richer, more complex in overtones, sonorous. The lined head is clearer and brighter.
If you can afford to, get both. You can always sell one or the other for what you paid. But I bet you'll want to keep both.

From cocus earlier in this thread.

Apparently you 'missed' what Loren said as well.

I think we all agree the player makes the chief
contribution to tone, however, as you note above,
the flute makes a significant difference too.

Loren's premise doesn't support his conclusion.
That some people can make a Rod Cameron rudall
or a GLP
and a Hammy pratten sound the same doesn't entail
they sound the same or that there isn't a significant
diffrence in their sound. Also I'm doubtful that his
premise is true. Though maybe someone somewhere
can do it. Certainly recordings of great people playing
Rudalls sound like Rudalls, and great people playing
Prattens sound like Prattens.

The differences in timbre, volume, and responsiveness
are interesting in their own right and can be useful
in different venues. This is why many good makers
make different model flutes.

So, as Patrick Olwell told me, he plays his unlined flutes
'in the studio' and his lined flutes 'in sessions.'
This is because of the tonal differences you mentioned
above, not because he's an American.

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:13 am

I think the difference between lined and unlined heads will be greater than the difference between woods. What does Loren think?

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:28 am

cocusflute wrote:Did you miss what Loren said? I'll say it again:

90+ % of the tone comes from the player, not the flute. Try handing 3 very "different" flutes to a world class player and you will find they produce virtually identical tone on each flute.
Americans tend to be into equipment rather than technique. Why is this?

No, I didn't miss what Loren said. However, it is irrelevent. I'm not a "world class player" and different flutes sound very different when I play. When I listen to recordings I can clearly hear the difference between flutes. Olwells sound like Olwells, Grinters sound like Grinters, and Murrays sound like Murrays, etc. regardless of which world class musician is at the wheel. So without necessarily disagreeing with Loren, I would say this has not been my experience.

Your assumptions about Americans might be true in a collective sense. However, I don't think you can apply these predujices to those of us playing ITM. It is my experience that we don't fit the mold very well.

Jay

malanstevenson · Post by **malanstevenson** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:48 am

Your assumptions about Americans might be true in a collective sense. However, I don't think you can apply these predujices to those of us playing ITM. It is my experience that we don't fit the mold very well.

Speak for yourself, I like my flutes BIG, FAST, and with plenty of BLING. And Supersize my fries with that, baby.

That being said, I've enjoyed this discussion - very informative! Youse are a collective powerhouse of knowledge and experience, the Borg hive-mind of ITM.

Merry Happy,
Mark

mahanpots · Post by **mahanpots** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:21 pm

I've got an Olwell, pratten I believe, and lined. I've also got a Folkflute that I really like the sound of.

So, I shared a clip in "Posting Clips" of two tunes played on each flute. I'm just wondering if everyone can easily tell which is which.

You might think this is a sneaky way for me to get folks to listen to my clips.

Well....

Michael

brotherwind · Post by **brotherwind** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:47 pm

cocusflute wrote:Did you miss what Loren said? I'll say it again:

90+ % of the tone comes from the player, not the flute. Try handing 3 very "different" flutes to a world class player and you will find they produce virtually identical tone on each flute.
Americans tend to be into equipment rather than technique. Why is this?

... maybe Americans with German ancestors

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