Transition from whistle to flute

[drewr]

In looking at the forums here it seems that a good number of whistle players are considering a switch to the Irish flute. Some forum contributors seem to think that a history with the whistle would help a new flute player and others seem to think the skills really don't transpose from one instrument to the other at all in a meaningful way.

I bought my first whistle about 10 months ago and before long upgraded from a cheap Clark Meg whistle to a handmade David O'Brien copper & delrin whistle. Then about a month ago I decided that I'd like to try Irish flute and, after shopping around a bit and reading lots on this forum, ordered a 3-piece Doug Tipple PVC low-D flute. I didn't really get tired of playing the whistle, but it never really seemed like the right instrument for me. To make matters worse, the shrill sound drove the wife nuts.

I have to say that, for me at least, having a background in the whistle (even one as brief as mine) made a huge difference in the learning curve with the flute. Along with the obvious advantage of having identical fingerings, a knowledge of the whistle (which was the first woodwind I'd ever played) gave me an ability to differentiate between air stream strength through the octaves and a reasonable foundation in ornamentation. I also had some experience in breath control and a song base that was transferable (to some extent), which really helped out my initial attempts at playing. I found that it was easier to figure out embouchure, for example, if I was trying to finger through a song rather than just concentrating one one static note.

I do have to agree, however, that learning the flute is FAR more difficult than the whistle. Not only is embouchure and directing the airstream a huge hurdle, but the fingers are spread much farther apart than I ever expected. After I played flute for a day or so I couldn't believe how tough this instrument is on the body. My hands, fingers, and especially wrists ached and I got a pretty painful kink in my back along with a sore shoulder. Luckily, these appear to have passed for the most part, except for the wrist thing. I find covering the holes properly on such a larger instrument especially difficult. It's interesting to note that half the time I struggle with a note that's sounding only like a hiss and attempt to adjust my embouchure every which way, it's not the embouchure at all but cramped fingers that can no longer seal the holes properly that is causing the problem. Hopefully in time this too will pass.

As of now I've been playing one week (Doug's flute arrived December 7th) and I have a long way to go. I have a lot to learn with regards to embouchure and breath control and it seems to me that it'll take months or longer to get a satisfying and consistent tone out of this flute. I've stumbled across a fantastic tone a time or two when practicing, but duplicating this every time with every note in every song seems like it may take forever.

Anyway, I recorded a short YouTube video (my first) celebrating my week's anniversary of playing. Don't expect much if you care to check it out and don't assume that this is what a Doug Tipple flute is supposed to sound like (for Doug's sake!). It's great to be part of the forum and the Irish flute playing community.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2oZsTH0j0Sg

[daiv]

In looking at the forums here it seems that a good number of whistle players are considering a switch to the Irish flute. Some forum contributors seem to think that a history with the whistle would help a new flute player and others seem to think the skills really don't transpose from one instrument to the other at all in a meaningful way.

I bought my first whistle about 10 months ago and before long upgraded from a cheap Clark Meg whistle to a handmade David O'Brien copper & delrin whistle. Then about a month ago I decided that I'd like to try Irish flute and, after shopping around a bit and reading lots on this forum, ordered a 3-piece Doug Tipple PVC low-D flute. I didn't really get tired of playing the whistle, but it never really seemed like the right instrument for me. To make matters worse, the shrill sound drove the wife nuts.

I have to say that, for me at least, having a background in the whistle (even one as brief as mine) made a huge difference in the learning curve with the flute. Along with the obvious advantage of having identical fingerings, a knowledge of the whistle (which was the first woodwind I'd ever played) gave me an ability to differentiate between air stream strength through the octaves and a reasonable foundation in ornamentation. I also had some experience in breath control and a song base that was transferable (to some extent), which really helped out my initial attempts at playing. I found that it was easier to figure out embouchure, for example, if I was trying to finger through a song rather than just concentrating one one static note.

I do have to agree, however, that learning the flute is FAR more difficult than the whistle. Not only is embouchure and directing the airstream a huge hurdle, but the fingers are spread much farther apart than I ever expected. After I played flute for a day or so I couldn't believe how tough this instrument is on the body. My hands, fingers, and especially wrists ached and I got a pretty painful kink in my back along with a sore shoulder. Luckily, these appear to have passed for the most part, except for the wrist thing. I find covering the holes properly on such a larger instrument especially difficult. It's interesting to note that half the time I struggle with a note that's sounding only like a hiss and attempt to adjust my embouchure every which way, it's not the embouchure at all but cramped fingers that can no longer seal the holes properly that is causing the problem. Hopefully in time this too will pass.

As of now I've been playing one week (Doug's flute arrived December 7th) and I have a long way to go. I have a lot to learn with regards to embouchure and breath control and it seems to me that it'll take months or longer to get a satisfying and consistent tone out of this flute. I've stumbled across a fantastic tone a time or two when practicing, but duplicating this every time with every note in every song seems like it may take forever.

Anyway, I recorded a short YouTube video (my first) celebrating my week's anniversary of playing. Don't expect much if you care to check it out and don't assume that this is what a Doug Tipple flute is supposed to sound like (for Doug's sake!). It's great to be part of the forum and the Irish flute playing community.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2oZsTH0j0Sg

thanks for sharing!

it's a wonder we can play these sticks with holes at all.

we're glad to have you, and keep us posted on your progress! do you have any whistle videos?

[Doug_Tipple]

I am guessing that there are many here who are envious that you can play that well after only one week of playing. You appear to have hands that are large enough to finger the cylindrical-bore low D flute with comfort, so keep up the good work. Playing a side-blown flute with a larger finger spread than you are used to with the whistle will feel much more natural after a few months of practice.

[jemtheflute]

Welcome.... and well done. You will find it takes time - as you seem aware and express well in your post - which I think is a very helpful one for anyone who may be thinking of making the same switch.

[crickett]

Thanks for the post. I'll be dealing with these issues soon enough, since I'm a whistle player whose very first flute is in the mail. Honestly, I'll be damn happy if I'm getting a sound that nice out of my flute after one week. You should feel pleased. And I think Doug's flute sounds quite nice even in the hands of a beginner.

Keep up the good work, and shoot us another Youtube link after a few months--maybe even playing the same tune.
Cheers!

[sbfluter]

What I did before my flutes came was I bought a Bb to stretch my fingers. Then I bought a really cheap bamboo G whistle to stretch them further. I was pretty satisfied I might be able to handle the flute when it came. Was I ever surprised when my small-handed Folk Flute turned out to have an easier finger stretch than the Bb whistle!

The Tipple, however, is a totally different thing. It's cylindrical so the finger stretch is much more difficult. I managed to do it though. But I went through a lot of cramping and soreness at first. Eventually I got almost as adept at it as my folk flute. Not quite though.

I haven't played my Tipple in a while and now I can hardly get a sound out of it at all. I think I'm a flute monogamist at heart.

Anyway, keep going. The soreness does go away and if I can get it with my medium lady hands then you certainly should be able to. And I agree that already knowing how to play the whistle helps. You already know the music, the fingerings and where to breathe. All that's left is how to hold the beast and how to blow it.

[Cork]

...I do have to agree, however, that learning the flute is FAR more difficult than the whistle...As of now I've been playing one week (Doug's flute arrived December 7th) and I have a long way to go. I have a lot to learn with regards to embouchure and breath control and it seems to me that it'll take months or longer to get a satisfying and consistent tone out of this flute. I've stumbled across a fantastic tone a time or two when practicing, but duplicating this every time with every note in every song seems like it may take forever...

There are some tricks to the trade, so to speak, but learning to play the transverse flute just isn't all that difficult, provided that you are willing to put in some regular practice. Regular practice, over time, is key to progress on the flute. Yeah, you can do that, if you have a mind to, and if you do practice regularly, you might just surprise yourself at your abilities, in considerably less time than you now imagine.

Hang in there, and welcome to a world of flute playing!

[brianormond]

-Playing whistle will give a grasp of the scale and tunes. Both transfer nicely to flute. Articulation will benefit from developing the tune on flute then backsliding to the nimbler whistle. Play both and subtleties become available for expression which may not have been apparent before.


-The logistics of playing the same tune on flute will be the challenge. Another poster (I don't recall where) emphasized the virtue of regular practice with Vladimir Horowitz's maxim to the effect of missing practice: For one day: He notices. Two days: His wife notices. Three days: The audience notices. -That from a master, so lesser musical mortals can't hope to avoid practice and maintain or improve.

Breathe hearty!

[FLUTEinVT]

I switched just about a year ago to the day when my bamboo flute arrived. TO be honest, I thought that it would be easier that it has been - trying to play with a metronome up to speed (even not too fast, mind you) is sobering. I really did not start getting anything remotely like the hang of it until I upgraded to a Copely blackwood back in October. I try to practice almost every day.

THis seems to be a pattern in my life - I get hooked on something while making the simultaneous realization that it is going to be much more difficult than anticipated.
Paul

[jim stone]

Patience. I've been playing flute five years this month.
I reckon I've been playing about two hours every day.
Patience is essential.

I think I will always feel
I'm at the beginning. It's good to feel
that way.

It's difficult to play flute, for me anyhow.
I'm glad it's so hard. I seem to need
something hard to work on.

A lot of things are becoming simpler now.
Also I can 'hear' the music better and
learn tunes faster. Gradual progress is
becoming a bit less gradual.

I notice lately that people are increasngly
more glad I'm in the
ensemble.

I do think slow playing, assisted by a
metronome, helps progress a good deal.
Methodical practice of fundamentals, spending some
time each practice session playing scales,
ornaments, long tones, arpeggios, etc
is very helpful. Flute seems a 'bottom up'
affair; simplicity and precision in
the fundamentals is the foundation
of playing beautifully over the long haul.

I notice that there are people who, at two years,
are about as agile on the flute as I am at five. That's OK
with me. If I can go on another five years
I'll be pretty good. All of my life there were
people who got things faster than I did,
and I found that, if I persevered,
I could become very good.

[boyd]

Lots of encouragement here, from everyone.

Keep up the good work

B

[Ceili_whistle_man]

That's pretty good going for one week of practice.
One thing I notice is the toot-toot-toot style of your playing, are you tonguing or using a glottal stop?
My I suggest you learn to slur, that way you will get more of a flow between the notes and you will find the tune starts to take on the lilt it should have if played correctly.
Get into the good habits now and benefit later. Keep up the good work, and as suggested earlier give us video updates to see how you progress with Benda Stubbert's.

[drewr]

Yeah, I realize the unfortunate toot-toot style. It's glottal stops all the way -- I was never much into tonguing even with the whistle. At this point it's inexperience and lack of breath control combined with a beginner's embouchure that's mainly responsible, I think.

Maybe you can define "slurring" precisely. It's obviously something I'll have to work on, but not a technique I'm familiar with or have come across before. If it'll make me sound anything like the other flute players I've heard then I'm all for learning it.

Thanks for the input.

That's pretty good going for one week of practice.
One thing I notice is the toot-toot-toot style of your playing, are you tonguing or using a glottal stop?
My I suggest you learn to slur, that way you will get more of a flow between the notes and you will find the tune starts to take on the lilt it should have if played correctly.
Get into the good habits now and benefit later. Keep up the good work, and as suggested earlier give us video updates to see how you progress with Benda Stubbert's.

[Bloomfield]

Maybe you can define "slurring" precisely. It's obviously something I'll have to work on, but not a technique I'm familiar with or have come across before. If it'll make me sound anything like the other flute players I've heard then I'm all for learning it.

slurring: not separating the notes by either tonguing or glottal stops (and thus using finger articulation or no articulation at all).

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Take a big breath, blow into your flute in one unbroken run until you need to take another breath, while doing this, run up and down from bottom D to the next octave D. All your notes should run into each other without any break in between notes, this is slurring.
What you then have to learn are cuts and taps and rolls to seperate notes of the same tonal value, or to add decoration on held notes. After that comes the process of deciding where you want to ornament the tune you are playing.
This is what gives a person their own particular style of playing, where they play or place ornamentation in their tunes.
Let me know how you go with the slurring and I will see if I can help with any more queries.