Wooden Low D whistles

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MacEachain
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Post by MacEachain »

Hi Folks,
This thread has the potential to cause serious psycological problems and should come with a government health warning!! I've just taped the head of my Kerry Pro to my wooden flute body, when I laid both bodies side by side the toneholes more or less lined up. I did'nt expect it to work and it did'nt, at least not very well but it might have potential if there was someone mad enough to work on it (Bill?) Must go, there's two blokes at my door, look's like they're selling coat's with zips up the back!! ;-)

Cheers, Mac
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Post by chas »

On 2002-11-13 13:12, nickt wrote:
On 2002-11-13 03:16, Wombat wrote:
For anyone ordering from outside Australia, the low D was $US350
Are you sure? I was quoted US$420
I just received email yesterday quoting $350. It seems quite a bargain to me, as I'm really pleased with the high-D that cost $240.
Charlie
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serpent
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Post by serpent »

On 2002-11-14 06:27, brewerpaul wrote:
On 2002-11-13 11:41, drewcifer wrote:
Doesn't Glenn Schultz do wooden low whistles?
Anyone had any experience with them?
Last time I visited Glenn, G was the lowest he had. Nice whistles!

Serpent-- with a 12" fingerhole section, I'd still be SOL: I'd need 12" long on my lathe bed for the work piece plus another 12"for the drill in the tailstock. 24" is 'way too long. Drilling half in from each end is too risky...
... what kind of lathe do you use, Paul? If it will accept the Record hollow cup center (MT2), you have no limit on the length of drill! I have a 5/16 shell auger that's got a 4-foot shank, and if I trusted it to not wander, could drill through a 3' section in one pass. From there, it's just a series of reamers.

You can make Tony's whistle, man! You can do it! GO, PAUL, GO!!! :grin:
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"the Serpent in the Garden"
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Post by Loren »

On 2002-11-14 08:10, chas wrote:

I just received email yesterday quoting $350. It seems quite a bargain to me, as I'm really pleased with the high-D that cost $240.

Yeah, I'd agree - at $350 a Grinter Low D is a steal, seems to me I paid about that much for a Grinter Low F back when Paul Groff was selling them and you couldn't buy direct from Grinter. At this price, I suggest you stockpile a few and wait till his prices go up and waiting list get's longer, then re-sell at a profit.

Although I hope his Low D's don't require even more air than his Low F, which I found a bit challenging to keep going at times.

Loren
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Post by Loren »

On 2002-11-14 07:06, Tony wrote:
$400-$600 for a high quality wooden Low D?
Sounds good. I'm suprised there aren't more out there either.
Tenor and baritone recorders often exceed those prices.
I think we don't see more wooden Low D's because the profit margin is fairly low relative to what a person can bring in by making wooden flutes. Similar amount of materials and time involved to make both (with a flute costing a little more in terms of work hours and materials), yet good keyless flutes sell for $800+ and are in high demand, while a Wooden Low D will would be difficult to sell at half the price, and the market is far more limited.

Loren

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-11-14 08:37 ]</font>
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Post by nickt »

On 2002-11-14 08:34, Loren wrote:
On 2002-11-14 07:06, Tony wrote:
$400-$600 for a high quality wooden Low D?
Sounds good. I'm suprised there aren't more out there either.
Tenor and baritone recorders often exceed those prices.
I think we don't see more wooden Low D's because the profit margin is fairly low relative to what a person can bring in by making wooden flutes. Similar amount of materials and time involved to make both (with a flute costing a little more in terms of work hours and materials), yet good keyless flutes sell for $800+ and are in high demand, while a Wooden Low D will would be difficult to sell at half the price, and the market is far more limited.

Loren

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-11-14 08:37 ]</font>
Quite right. The Grinter price is very low considering. Flute/recorder makers regularly receive $1000-$6000+ a pop, so why would you focus on whistles? Explains why Mike doesn't advertise his.
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Post by Tony »

Typically, unkeyed Uilleann chanters with keyblocks run in price from $600US to $1,200US. Keys can be added at a later date, raising prices another $500 to $1,000. Some makers are offering 'broomstick' chanters for much less (as low as $250US for one maker) without the ability to add keys.
Loren, as you put it... there's a market for $800+ flutes, yet none for $400 whistles. I find that odd, but it might be best to get one (or more) at those prices.
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Post by Wombat »

Since there's still some uncertainty about Michael Grinter's current prices and there is understandable interest in his whistles, here is the complete price list he sent me in $US on September 17. (Australian prices are different because our dollar is a bit unstable and separate pricing offers Michael and his customers greater certainty.)

High D, Eb and Bb $240
Low F, G and A $300
Low D $350

For those who find these prices low—they are—remember that Michael's costs and profits will be measured in Australian dollars mostly and our dollar is very weak compared to the US dollar—about 59 cents. That's what gives him this competitive edge. Everybody wins here since the Aussie prices are also very reasonable for what you get. (Well, rival makers don't win of course.)
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Post by Zubivka »

A local flute + bombarde + reeds maker
(Hervé Jezequel, Bretaudis, 56 620 Pont Scorff, FRANCE, Tel: +33 2 97 32 65 94 Fax: +33 2 97 32 62 58 )
He confided to me he had to sell his blackwood whistles 35%-40% cheaper than his flutes, while it's basically the same amount of work. This may explain he doesn't bother trying conical bores on the whistles, while his flute profiles are complex.
One of his advantages is he makes any low key from F down, and does offer any keyed version on demand.
It's true: I read it on Internet.
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Post by ChrisLaughlin »

To understand why Michael is reluctant to sell many whistles, consider that his recorders are considered among the very best in the world, have a two to three year waiting list, and fetch quite a tidy sum. Why make a couple hundred dollars on a whistle when one may make quite a bit more on a recorder?
Best,
Chris
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

On 2002-11-14 10:02, ChrisLaughlin wrote:
To understand why Michael is reluctant to sell many whistles, consider that his recorders are considered among the very best in the world, have a two to three year waiting list, and fetch quite a tidy sum. Why make a couple hundred dollars on a whistle when one may make quite a bit more on a recorder?
Best,
Chris
Absolutely right. Why does Michael even bother? He's actually expanded his whistle-making activities.

I haven't met him in person yet but the local celtic musos, who can't afford his whistles, say that he loves the music and supports it, and them, strongly. So there you have it.

This is a just another variation on a theme that some of us have been stressing recently. These world class instrument makers do much of what they do for the love of the music and a desire to see the traditions preserved. Recently I spent nearly half a day in the company of Richard Evans who makes world-class (Dipper-standard) Anglo concertinas. He's not even in the phone book. His waiting list is two years and getting longer all the time. He'd organised a deal to get me one of his instruments second hand to avoid the wait. He made *nothing* out of that. But he spent an afternoon playing for me, giving me rare instruments to try, digging up learning resources for me, joking and chatting about music and life in general. At one point he said, 'I'll have to put up my prices, I don't make very much.' Then he just smiled and went on playing and chatting. Anybody met a lawyer who does things this way?
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Post by Zubivka »

Nope, but I met Colin Goldie, and he was exactly like the concertina maker you describe, all including the price line.
B.t.w. meeting him was a welcome break, and relief after spending $2000 + VAT on one bloody patent lawyer letter the morning before!
It's true: I read it on Internet.
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Post by Tony »

Chris, Wombat... hear me out on this.
If a maker assigns a shop rate he/she would like to get paid for an instrument, based on the number of hours it takes to make... then (for conversation, as I really don't know how many hours it takes) a simple whistle might take 10 hours to complete and a more complex recorder taking 20, wouldn't the recorder then cost twice as much as the whistle? You do the math. The shop rate remains the same and he/she isn't making any less % profit on the whistle than the recorder.
The key factor in the price is percent... so, at the end of the week, making two whistles instead of one recorder brings the maker the same amount of money at the same profit margin.
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Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
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Post by Loren »

Tony,

Why do you assume that a recorder is more complex and time consuming to make than a whistle of approximately the same size? I think this is a false assumption....

Loren
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Post by Wombat »

OK Tony, point taken. Perhaps Chris and I have the comparative costs in time wrong as you say. I wouldn't know. (Weren't some people on this thread denying that earlier though?)

My point about these fine instrument makers being generous, giving, people still stands. The afternoon he spent with me, Richard Evans made little or no money. But *he* set the whole thing up and corresponds about concertina matters regularly. I have a luthier who's just the same and a respected Uilleann pipe maker also spent an afternoon talking to me even though his list was closed. I've virtually come to expect this from the top makers. Compared to people in other professions who are no more skilled, they don't do well financially.
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