How Fast is too Fast?

boatgirl · Post by **boatgirl** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:47 am

Funny this came up on the forum. A week ago I listened to a couple of recordings and realised, I am slow! Then I was trying to play too fast. Nothing sounded melodic anymore because I got sloppy and wasn't playing each note clearly. My other half, who missed all the practice for being out of town, tells me I am still faster (even when I think I am slow now), not sure how that happened but yay. I enjoy playing reels and some of those seem as fast as a jig to me. that's my 2 cents.

boatgirl

TheSpoonMan · Post by **TheSpoonMan** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:22 am

JordanII wrote:If your playing a jig it probably shouldn't be so fast that you can't tongue it.

Hmm... but what if you play flute and don't tongue at all?

Good way to think about it tho. And by extension- if you ever play too fast that the different elements of the tune, its dance type, and your playing itself- tonguing, ornaments, lilt, certain awesome passages, etc- become diminished in value or effect, I think that's the best sign you need to tone it down. On the other side of music, one of the best things a musician ever told me for classical music, is that a short, quick note should have all the feeling and power and passion of a prolonged, supposedly more passionate note- just in a shorter space.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:28 am

peeplj wrote: You know the ironic thing?

Often times really good players don't sound like they are going all that fast...until you actually try to play with them. Then you find out that they can just sit back and cook on a tune and even play with it a bit at a tempo that you would consider quite fast if you were the one playing.

I was going to make a similar point. Funny thing is, two different players can play a tune at the same tempo, but one sounds really fast and the other doesn't. Two of the opposites who come immediately to mind are Conal O'Grada and Catherine McEvoy. I respect Conal, but to me his music always sounds too fast, even when it isn't any faster than anyone else playing the same tune. I don't think he ornaments any more than most; I think he just has a forceful, almost percussive style of playing. Catherine to my ears is just the opposite -- she can rip off a reel at a seemingly relaxed pace, then when I find out ohw fast she's playing I'm just blown away. In her case I think I understand why the playing sounds so relaxed -- it's not overly ornamented, but mostly it's just that her style is very flowing and smooth.

Carey · Post by **Carey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:02 pm

Your tune should sound right to the listeners. If those listeners are other ITM players you can play as fast as you can until you start thinking it doesn't sound right. But, if you are playing for an audience who is not accustomed to listening to ITM, you should probably slow it down to a pace where their ears/mind can listen to it. I find this when the relatives come around and ask me to play a tune or two. If I play at my normal rate they ask "Does it have to be played that fast?" So I've learned to slow down so they can keep up.

trill · Post by **trill** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:04 pm

For barn dancing, tempos in the range of 115 - 120 bpm are common.

trill

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:08 pm

How does one get faster, though? I cannot play very fast, so I end up sitting out even tunes I already know at my session. Sometimes I fear I will always play alone and my music will never sound fun and lively.

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:27 pm

Well if you read back you'll see I wrote just how one gets faster. Maybe I didn't spell it out letter for letter, but the basics are there my friend.

-Eric

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:43 pm

To acquire speed, practice at a reasonable, comfortable speed. Try to stay as relaxed as possible.

As you get the tune more and more solid, speed it up a bit.

The secret to playing fast is that if it feels fast to you, then you are going faster than you really should. Slow it back down.

When you really have the tune, you'll be able to go at quite a clip without it feeling fast and frantic either to you or to those listening to you.

--James

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:14 am

I seem stuck at a particular speed, though. Kinda like when god was handing out skill he gave everybody a Porsche but I got a VW bus.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:13 am

The VW will last longer and looks nicer (not saying much, I know, but at least it doesn't look like a semi-squashed slug!) Oh yeah, and you'll get there in the end!

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:39 am

A tune played well and with precision beats a tune played fast and sloppy anyday.

I play half fast, myself...

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:40 pm

I'll second that. Plus I play half slow since you brought it up.

walrii · Post by **walrii** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:19 am

sbfluter wrote:I seem stuck at a particular speed, though.

Alas, human learning is not the smooth upslope we all wish it could be. We humans learn in steps; in learning theory, the flat spots are called plateaus. When we learn something, anything, we make rapid progress for a while then don't appear to make any progress at all or maybe even fall back (that's called regression). The thing is, our brain is learning during the plateaus and regressions. This isn't exactly neurologically correct but think of your brain trying out many different wiring diagrams, trying to find the one that works best. Eventually, the brain gets that step sorted out and we experience another surge of rapid learning followed by another plateau. As we gain experience, the surges and plateaus tend to smooth out but they are still there.

So what does all this have to do with getting faster on the whistle? Keep practicing at a pace you can control, as mentioned above by many folks. One day when you are feeling frisky, step it up a notch. If you lose control, back off; you haven't crossed the plateau yet. One day, you'll try to speed it up and, miraculously, your fingers will fluidly and with full control pick up the pace. You're across that plateau. Enjoy the surge, there's another plateau ahead.

I'm at best an intermediate whistler but I've taught flying and technical courses for almost 40 years. The stairstep learning curve really is how it works.

Tucson Whistler · Post by **Tucson Whistler** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:14 am

walrii wrote: When we learn something, anything, we make rapid progress for a while then don't appear to make any progress at all or maybe even fall back (that's called regression). The thing is, our brain is learning during the plateaus and regressions.

I'm an intermediate beginner (or may a beginning intermediate) player and I have to say that I completely agree with this. I can't tell you how many times I've been completely discouraged by my playing. Many times I've felt like I was getting worse and the the next day, everything just falls into place and I feel like I just jumped 5 steps forward. Don't give up and don't get too hard on yourself.

Tootler · Post by **Tootler** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:28 pm

walrii wrote:
Alas, human learning is not the smooth upslope we all wish it could be. We humans learn in steps; in learning theory, the flat spots are called plateaus. When we learn something, anything, we make rapid progress for a while then don't appear to make any progress at all or maybe even fall back (that's called regression)...

As a retired lecturer, I'm familiar with this and have had a quite striking experience of it learning the flute.

I bought a cheap plastic simple system flute about 2.5 years ago to learn on. Initially I did OK, but then plateau'ed big time. I just seemed to get nowhere. It was finger position that was the problem and that was frustrating as I have been playing tenor recorder for about 15 years and that has similar finger spacing. I effectively gave up and did not touch the flute for about a year and was on the point of getting rid of it when someone gave me a wooden flute. I tried that out and I was away! the fingers somehow just fell into place and I started making progress again.

I have started taking the flute to sessions and have found that even though I tend to play quite slowly at home, I can keep up when out, so a lot of learning has clearly been going on in the background.

There is also a useful thought in this for playing at speed. Practice slowly at home and make sure you have the tune absolutely secure under your fingers and when you are playing with others you will be surprised how quickly you can play. I certainly was.

Geoff

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How Fast is too Fast?

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