Dear Abby...

[Jack]

I'm Wilburite Quaker. Most publications you find online are from FGC (more liberal) or FUM (more conservative) Quakers. All three branches have different practices, and the branch I come from is by far the smallest so you don't find many references to us. The traditional Quaker approach, observed for some 300+ years, was not to celebrate any holy days (holidays), including birthdays. Wilburites are the only group which still holds to that practice, at least many of us do.

Thank you all for the helpful answers. You've humbled me and helped me realize things I didn't even ask about.

[Jack]

not only that but someone pointed out to me in a private message that cran was a guy. what can i say. that cat avatar threw me off.

This doesn't matter. I gave up a long time ago correcting people who call me "she." It doesn't particularly bother me anymore, in real life (mostly on the telephone) or online.

[Steamwalker]

This doesn't matter. I gave up a long time ago correcting people who call me "she." It doesn't particularly bother me anymore, in real life (mostly on the telephone) or online.

Hmmmm...

[cowtime]

Why does your religion forbid you to celebrate birthdays?

I don't want to argue the point. I am just interested why.

Mukade

Me too. Why not celebrate holidays and birthdays? I am seriously asking this.
(I'm Episcopalian and we'll throw a party at the drop of a hat )

[Congratulations]

not only that but someone pointed out to me in a private message that cran was a guy. what can i say. that cat avatar threw me off.

This doesn't matter. I gave up a long time ago correcting people who call me "she." It doesn't particularly bother me anymore, in real life (mostly on the telephone) or online.

Man, I get that on the phone all the time.

"Hello, you've reached [my place of employment]. This is Jared speaking, how can I help you?"

"Yes, ma'am, I have a question."

EVERY SINGLE TIME. For the first few months I would just hang up, and when they called back, I'd make someone else answer. Not kidding. Then I didn't answer the phone for a while. Now I correct them. I sleep with men, but that don't make me a ma'am.

[mutepointe]

taking this thread completely off-off topic, i get just the opposite. i'm a social worker, traditionally, a women's field of work. my first name (definitely a man's name) is a tad bit unusual for where i now live and until about 10 years or so ago, most folks around here would assume it was a women's name for reasons that made total sense to them. (no, i'm not telling what my first name is, i like my anonymity. but thanks for asking) i would have appointments scheduled and folks would be expecting a women and then i would show up, a big bearish looking guy. i completely unsettled quite a few folks.

[djm]

Yup, lots of big, hairy women in West Virginia named Fred.

djm

[Jack]

To those who enquire about the reasons, they're really complicated even for me and as I said before, we're small (a couple thousand members, worldwide) and not very much talked about online...so I don't know of a place to point you to which says "this is the reason." I know even of a few Wilburites who are the stereotypical "Amish-like" Quakers, who wear straw hats, bonnets, and such and sometimes don't even have electricity, much less a computer and the Internet. Ergo, I can only recommend a book: Growing Up Plain by Wil Cooper. Wil Cooper is a much respected Friend who was born and raised Wilburite and later went FUM. That one book is the main resource I know of, and it talks about the reasons for not celebrating holy days.

[peeplj]

The irony is my brother doesn't really not observe holidays as much as he observes them in a negative way.

Trust me, he's always very aware when it's his birthday, or Christmas. These are not just ordinary, regular-old days to him. These are the days more than any others that he is aggressive about his religion and carries a chip on his shoulder.

Although as he and I both age, he firmly in his middle-age, and me entering mine, he seems less likely to turn that angst towards me. Which is a welcome change.

--James

[Aanvil]

Cran,

I hope this isn't too prying but I don't think you are hiding anything here.

How does the Quaker faith square with non-traditional gender roles?

Main stream Christianity... well, I think we all know where they stand.

I'm honestly interested.

Just so you know where I stand.

I find there are are multiple biological variations.

Its primarily genetic for males. Primarily... but not completely.

Females... even more complicated. Big "nurture" factor.

Feel free to not answer.

I promise not to sling any bloody turtles.







[/code]

[Jack]

Cran,

I hope this isn't too prying but I don't think you are hiding anything here.

How does the Quaker faith square with non-traditional gender roles?

Main stream Christianity... well, I think we all know where they stand.

I'm honestly interested.

Just so you know where I stand.

I find there are are multiple biological variations.

Its primarily genetic for males. Primarily... but not completely.

Females... even more complicated. Big "nurture" factor.

Feel free to not answer.

I promise not to sling any bloody turtles.







[/code]

The answer varies. For the most part, American and British* Friends are on the far-left periphery of liberal interpretations of Scripture and tradition. Quakers have been on the far-left of almost all socio-theological issues, especially slavery, pacifism, and gender equality, since the Society's inception in the 1600s. That's why so many were hanged and burned at the stake with the witches in earlier days. Quakers had two founders who lead the early movement in various ways, one a man (George Fox) and the other a woman (Margaret Fell), in a time when women simply did not do such things. So gender roles have always been more liberal than most (all?) other Christian groups. Susan B. Anthony was a Quaker.

*However, most Friends nowadays are African, specifically Kenyan. I'm afraid I can't speak for any of them.

[Jack]

not only that but someone pointed out to me in a private message that cran was a guy. what can i say. that cat avatar threw me off.

This doesn't matter. I gave up a long time ago correcting people who call me "she." It doesn't particularly bother me anymore, in real life (mostly on the telephone) or online.

Man, I get that on the phone all the time.

"Hello, you've reached [my place of employment]. This is Jared speaking, how can I help you?"

"Yes, ma'am, I have a question."

EVERY SINGLE TIME. For the first few months I would just hang up, and when they called back, I'd make someone else answer. Not kidding. Then I didn't answer the phone for a while. Now I correct them. I sleep with men, but that don't make me a ma'am.

Hey Mary*, do you think men and women write differently? I know we've both been called women before on the forum, and I wonder if writing style has something to do with it.

I also wonder if both of us having non-gender specific usernames is a part of it. I'll change my name to Mike and you change yours to Bob and let's see what happens.

*;)

[emmline]

I also wonder if both of us having non-gender specific usernames is a part of it.

I think it's having a berry as a handle, and avatars that frequently feature women or animals and not Clint Eastwood or a stock car.

[mutepointe]

the major things that threw me off were that the cranberries is an irish musical group that has a lead woman vocalist. i always thought the group was an all female band. then there is your avatar. everyone knows all dogs are male and all cats are females. that is just basic science. and your avatar even has two cats. then your writing tends to have a nice calm caring style. you rarely threaten to punch someone.

[WyoBadger]

so cran can send any presents he gets to wyobadger.
there.
problem solved.

okay, who's got the next religious dilemma?

-------
mufti rh

woohoo! Whadya say, Cran? Is it a deal?

Tom