How Fast is too Fast?

PallasAthena · Post by **PallasAthena** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:20 am

What are your thoughts on how fast jigs should be played? I mean, generally you want to play them at at least a lively tempo, but they ARE dance tunes so I get the feeling that they aren't designed to be played at an insane tempo. I think I tend to go more toward the insane tempo side of things when I know a jig well and it just sounds sort of hurried...

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:39 am

I don't like jigs played too fast, but I understand the group psychology that takes them there. It's all part of having fun. One of my treasured CDs is the Russell Family album. I would rather emulate that approach than, for example, my NaConnery's CD where they race through everything. It's gets muy macho after a while....

The faster you go, the more subtle the unevenness of the triplet figure becomes, diminishing to nothing. Then you have a very fast tune in 6/8...

I think ultrafast jigs are much more forgettable than slower ones in my "mind's ear." The difference between a ballet versus a buzzsaw. There is a cascading, adrenaline effect of an ultra-fast versus a quaint and expectant nature of a slower one.

But I suppose, too, that it's a matter of function. Jigs can be for listening or for dancing to. If their primary function is for dancing, then you do what the dancers can do and the other concerns are less important....

Oh yeah. Also, the more jigs you encounter, the more you will see that some "want" to be played fast and others don't... Avoid the cookie-cutter approach. A good example that everybody knows is Banish Misfortune. I think it loses a lot if you speed it up too much. Come Walk with Me is another that seems to want to jog rather than race. Those are just a few that come to mind...

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:19 pm

It all depends on the tune. Like Weekenders said, cookie cutter approaches to dance tunes should be avoided.

It also depends on the ability of the player to play a tune without sounding rushed. I've heard Banish Misfortune played slow and sound rushed and I've heard it played faster and sound livelier than ever. Here's an example I really enjoy:

http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/banish_misfortune/

This isn't super fast but when you go to play along with it, it's faster than you thought.

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:17 pm

If your playing a jig it probably shouldn't be so fast that you can't tongue it.

okstatepiper · Post by **okstatepiper** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:07 am

That audio version of Banish Misfortune was very nice; fast, but still with a lively jig feel to it. I don't like tunes that are played so fast that they sound simply like a bunch of notes strung together and totally lose the feel for the music that was intended. Too fast just becomes "show-off" and not music. Audience looses interest real quick.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:21 am

Keep in mind that a Jig is a DANCE and one should be able to dance to it without being hopped up on crystal meth...

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:37 am

If playing for dancers, one should play at 'dance tempo' that is, a speed to accompany dancers. In session it's OK to show off. If the dancers are falling over their feet, it's too fast. Don't worry, they'll let you know! Watch the feet, not the other bits.

Tirno · Post by **Tirno** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:06 am

As a dancer, I'm always mystified by the "don't forget it's dance music" argument. If you're not actually *playing* for dancers, why on earth should you consider whether your tempo is good enough for dancers?

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:58 am

If you listen to the trad recordings at Juneberry you'll see that it was not at all uncommon for players to get well above dance speed... that said, they were skilled enough to play at such speeds and not lose the feel of the tune. Listen to the Tulla Ceili band, most of their recordings (50 year anniversary CD) I can barely keep up with.

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:55 am

I'm intrigued by the use of the phrase "dance speed", as if there was only one type of dance done to a jig, and everyone everywhere did it at the exact same speed.... I've seen dances range from painfully fast to painfully slow. Heck, just last Sunday at our local pub visiting dancers requested repeatedly for us to speed up (we were playing a nice, calm but by no means slow tempo) and then to slow way down for a treble jig.

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:18 pm

Well, I think it depends on the tune personally. Gander in the Pratie Hole can be played quite lively, and still sound good, where as tunes such as Banish Misfortune, I prefer a little less liveliness, and more coloring to the tune... I can usually play jigs either way if I know them well enough, because obviously everyone at the session won't have the same thoughts as I, but like I said, these are my personal feelings on the matter. It depends on the tune.

-Eric

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Speaking of sounding hurried, I recently found ways to overcome that. It's not just about slowing down. I could slow the tune down and when I listened to the recording it still sounded hurried. Problem was that I was playing ahead of the metronome, rather than exactly on the beat. Being a nanosecond behind the beat is fine too, even preferable, but getting ahead is a formula for that "hurry up" feel to the music. Very amateurish. Also, in my anxiety to get ready for the next note, I was cutting the sustained notes short. I was doing the same thing at the end of a musical part....I would cut it short in order to be "in place" and ready for the beginning of the next.

Anglorfin · Post by **Anglorfin** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:59 pm

Not that I'm an expert, but I've been practicing a lot of jig tunes lately and I've always found it a common goal that I should be playing at whatever speed I'm comfortable with where the music doesn't suffer because of problems that might occur with speeding up. (If that makes any sense).

Obviously a better player can play faster while still making the music interesting. Case in point being the Banish Misfortune clip. If I were to play that fast even assuming I could hit all the ornaments it would still sound muddled and flat.

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:45 pm

well you should get more aqquainted with your instrument, and how to properly play all the notes at any given time, then worry about ornaments, and then speed will come in time. That's how I see it.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:55 pm

When you are playing fast enough that you tense up, you're going too fast.

If you are playing fast enough that you feel yourself relax a bit when you hit the "easy part" of a tune, you're going too fast.

You know the ironic thing?

Often times really good players don't sound like they are going all that fast...until you actually try to play with them. Then you find out that they can just sit back and cook on a tune and even play with it a bit at a tempo that you would consider quite fast if you were the one playing.

The way you get there is to never play it so fast that you aren't controlling it. Speed comes with control, and staying relaxed, and playing the tune over and over and over again.

I can't emphasize enough--tense fingers are slow fingers. You must relax.

--James