Why I feel sorry for Britney Spears-A post by Dale

[emmline]

Here's a clip from a documentary, Before the Music Dies, that shows how to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irk3_p15RJY

Fascinating stuff.

It was. Amazing what they can do with a bad to average voice.

[djm]

Gosh, all I need to do now is shave my legs and I, too, can become a star. Wow!

djm

[falkbeer]

I never regarded the Britney Spears phenomenon as at all important during her run of success. Now, however, I find myself thinking about her and what she symbolizes.
Dale

I think one has to look at Britney Spears as a product more than just an artist. She´s just a cog in a in a big wheel. And there is nothing wrong with that, most of us are!

One of the great illusions of our time is how we still look at art - the lonely 1900th century genius. The auteur, like Beethoven, Hemingway or Bergman, that creates a masterpiece from his/hers own imagination. In reality today art is seldom produced that way. Most often it´s a collective proceess by skilled craftsmen. Making a movie is a good example of this process. There are screenwriters, directors, producers, actors, composers, makeup artists... (actually hundreds of professions). And who cares if it wasn´t Audrey Hepburn who sung in My Fair Lady (it was Marnie Nixon), if the movie was entertaining!

In Britney´s case, I was amazed how well everything worked in the beginning of her career. For example, there was som very clever songwriting from Max Martin, and her videos were very well produced. And her sexy Lolita image was then working quite well too. (but perhaps not for a mother of two children). Comparing Britney with a true auteur, like Bob Dylan or Bergman, isn´t fair. She is more like an actor in a play. (for example: she is always dubbed on the records, 50% of the singing comes from another singer.)
She needs direction, a good script, and some decent songs, to be able to deliver to the audience. My feeling was, when I saw her, that she was alone. The carfully designed success formula didn´t work any longer, and the team had abandoned her. Like an old boxer, she was just going through the motions. But then again, all bussiness ideas has got an expiration date. Nothing lasts for ever. Some artist are one-hit-wonders, and some lasts a little longer. Some true auteurs like, Bowie, seems to be able to reinvent themselves, some has got a classic style that never goes out of fashion, and others disappears quitly after their 15 minutes of fame (Milli Vanilli, Vanilla Ice, Ice T and Mr T, for example).

[falkbeer]

Dale, this person agrees with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

"SHE'S A HUMAN!"

I can´t quite work out if this is a joke or if it´s for real.

I believe this young person is sincere. And distraught. I will say that I note some similarities between his rhetorical style and my own. And the delivery is much the same.

But, you know, really, this clip has gotten a zillion hits and it's being shown on various cable TV programs now. People are really making fun of this kid.

So, what I want to say:

LEAVE THIS YOUNG MAN ALONE!! He's clearly got FREAKING PROBLEMS!! LEAVE. HIM. ALONE. NOW!!! I FREAKING MEAN IT!! Sob, sob, sob. HE'S A HUMAN!!! If you don't leave him alone, YOU'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH ME!!

-Good morning Dale!
-How are you?
-All my circuits are working perfectly.
-My rethoric style is quite different.
-Shall I pull the plug on Chiff and Fipple perhaps?
-Or would you prefere a game of chess? -Or would you prefere a game of chess? -Or would you prefere a game of chess? -Or would you prefere a game of chess? -Or would you pre.......

[tuaz]

I have not seen her performance, but can it really be worse than the super-hyped debut performance of her ex, Kevin Federline, which I did see (I was visiting friends in the USA, and their kids were watching it)? That was terrible.

I do feel sorry for her, esp the way various critics seem to have taken extreme pleasure and glee in savaging her performance. It's like they couldn't wait to totally destroy her, to hit her when she was already down, and I find that highly distasteful.

As for the pitch changing machine, that's not new, and I'm not surprised she needs it. If you check around, I'm sure many pop stars - those who rely more on flash and marketing - use it. (I only hope Justin Timberlake doesn't, because I like him as a singer )

I'm sure Madonna does, as well. Madonna doesn't pass the live singing test. I watched her Live in Barcalona concert and was appalled at how she sounded singing the Sondheim songs from Dick Tracy. She sang those standing still, so you can't blame her pitching on her dancing.

[emmline]

Speaking of pitch, and live performance, a couple of seasons ago Diana Ross was one of the guest judges on American Idol and--as is often the case--performed live on the show.

Of course Miss Ross was much lauded, and much revered by the judges and everyone else, but--in the estimation of my inexpert ears--her performance was one of the worst off-pitch things I've ever heard. It was quite interesting to hear in that her vocals stood in such sharp contrast to the contestants, who were critiqued on every nuance of tone and technique, but--at least within the context of that show--every one of the amateurs had come closer to a clean performance than Diana.

Of course once you've had a career like hers, you've moved into the venerable diva stratosphere, and Simon Cowell will still behave respectfully and admiringly regardless of what might have been going on in his head.

Plus, seriously, anyone who sings has to have off days.

[Nanohedron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Oh, dear. That just curdled my coffee.

[Cynth]

I never regarded the Britney Spears phenomenon as at all important during her run of success. Now, however, I find myself thinking about her and what she symbolizes.
Dale

I think one has to look at Britney Spears as a product more than just an artist. She´s just a cog in a in a big wheel. And there is nothing wrong with that, most of us are!

I agree that she is a product----again I don't know much about her. I don't see how she is an artist---but I'm not prepared to enter a discussion about who is and isn't an artist . I don't feel like a cog in a big wheel. I mean I'm part of our society, and when I was working I suppose I helped that society run. But I had a real job of work, someone who met me did not think I was anyone other than what they saw. I didn't pretend to be able to do things I could not do. My life was not based on how my body looked---I admit I would once have liked to be in the beautiful category, but never at the expense of my mind (okay, when I was really young I probably would have sacrificed my mind ) or the respect of people whose opinions I cared about. I also think that making products out of people, no matter how willing they are, is sort of strange. It seems deceitful to me. To present someone as being able to sing who cannot, to build up a person who really doesn't exist. I know celebrities are probably all like this. Maybe this is why so many of them either withdraw into total privacy or else crack up. But many of them really can act or sing or dance or something---so they have done something other than just display their bodies.

And who cares if it wasn´t Audrey Hepburn who sung in My Fair Lady (it was Marnie Nixon), if the movie was entertaining!

Well, I did sort of care when I found out. I think that Marni Nixon was not in the film credits, although I might be wrong about that. I didn't mind that someone else did the singing, but it did bother me that credit wasn't given to that person. I don't really understand how Audrey Hepburn could have allowed people to think she was really singing. I would have felt I was taking credit for something I didn't do---that is considered very wrong in other parts of life, so I don't see why it wouldn't be considered wrong in show business.

[djm]

I admit I would once have liked to be in the beautiful category, but never at the expense of my mind

Thank goodness I still have my body ....

djm

[Cynth]

I admit I would once have liked to be in the beautiful category, but never at the expense of my mind

Thank goodness I still have my body ....

djm

Maybe so, but in your latest dance video your kicks weren't quite as high as they used to be !

[Nanohedron]

I also think that making products out of people, no matter how willing they are, is sort of strange. It seems deceitful to me. To present someone as being able to sing who cannot, to build up a person who really doesn't exist. I know celebrities are probably all like this. Maybe this is why so many of them either withdraw into total privacy or else crack up. But many of them really can act or sing or dance or something---so they have done something other than just display their bodies.

You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns
When they all come down and did tricks for you
You never understood that it ain't no good
You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you

Not too much of pop culture really gets me where I live, but the above lyric did, and I always remember it, especially the last line. While the entertainer/audience beast is probably as old as human society and, I think, not intrinsically a bad thing, there's certainly some worthwhile perspective in that lyric especially when seeking one's entertainment becomes a demanding sort of raison d'être, and it seems to me that there's a lot of that, now.

[cowtime]

Of course Miss Ross was much lauded, and much revered by the judges and everyone else, but--in the estimation of my inexpert ears--her performance was one of the worst off-pitch things I've ever heard. It was quite interesting to hear in that her vocals stood in such sharp contrast to the contestants, who were critiqued on every nuance of tone and technique, but--at least within the context of that show--every one of the amateurs had come closer to a clean performance than Diana.

I remember that because it was sooooo awful. I thought she should have quit while she was ahead..... I've noticed same in other older singers too- that they continue to "sing" and just no longer have it (if they ever really did)

[amar]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... d=18044622

[falkbeer]

And who cares if it wasn´t Audrey Hepburn who sung in My Fair Lady (it was Marnie Nixon), if the movie was entertaining!

Well, I did sort of care when I found out. I think that Marni Nixon was not in the film credits, although I might be wrong about that. I didn't mind that someone else did the singing, but it did bother me that credit wasn't given to that person. I don't really understand how Audrey Hepburn could have allowed people to think she was really singing. I would have felt I was taking credit for something I didn't do---that is considered very wrong in other parts of life, so I don't see why it wouldn't be considered wrong in show business.

This was actually a very common practice in those days. Marnie Nixon was also Natalie Wood´s singing voice in West Side Story. However in The Sound of Music she appears as one of the nuns.

[falkbeer]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... d=18044622

When discussing popular culture, the Chris Crocker phenomenon is very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvm88ckcNk