i figured out the silver flute

[tin tin]

I wonder if you could play bluegrass? Just because nobody has doesn't mean you couldn't try.

Check out Matt Eakle, the flute player for the David Grisman Quintet. I have heard him play great bluegrass solos, as well as a number of other styles, like Latin and the musical goulash called Dawg music. The silver flute may not be standard or ideal for Irish traditional music (although some have proved the matter otherwise), but its uses are limited only by the player's imagination. There's some amazing (and sometimes confusing) modern repertoire for the instrument--sometimes even involving multiphonic playing, and it can be very effective for lots of Latin styles, Klezmer, a wide range of jazz, and even rock. I've even heard a convincing heavy metal piece for bass flute (called Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas...it's even a palindrome!). And with the Kingma key system, quarter-tone scales can be played, opening the realm of Indian music.

Edit: And I just noticed that my only post on C&F with the word "Satan" in it happens to be my 666th post. Is anyone worried?

[Denny]

[jemtheflute]

Dunno about bluegrass etc, but I've played along on flute and whistle with (by chance) some of Britain's top players of Cajun music a couple of times (in late night festival jam session contexts) and, after a few quizzical looks, managed to fit in OK once my ear clicked in to what they were playing sufficiently to pick up the gist of it (coz I don't really know any cajun music....) and even got praised for my efforts. I've also done a moderate amount of bluesy/jazzy impro playing in my time - actually works really quite well on 8-key, provided the players don't want to go off into heavy E major guitar styles! (Not that the flute couldn't do it: I'm just not practised enough at those sorts of keys!)

[Lee Stanford]

Well, what do you play on the silver flute if not classical?
Sincere question. I can play one, I've discovered. I've
noodled enough on 'em, read enough threads like this one,
and the embouchure is way easier that an Irish flute.
I sound pretty good on a silver flute.

But short of learning music and launching into classical
or jazz, which I'm not about to do, what do you play?
I mean I know I can play ITM on 'em, if I figure
out how to stop the clacking on rolls, but Irish flute
is better. And they sound kind of airy fairy to me.

Is there a folk repertoire for these. You know the
violin makes a great folk instrument, but
but imagine bluegrass silver flute!

well, I think you can play just about anything you want on a silver flute if you work hard enough on it. Listen to Noel Rice. He's great. Also, check out the "John Renbourn live in america" CD set. That flute player is playing a lot of irish ornamentation and gets a charming sound.

Why couldn't bluegrass be played on a silver flute? I know lots of people who do it and they blow my mind and how good they are. It's all about how much you work on it. All about the skills of the player.

I play mostly irish and medieval music. For irish music, I use my irish flute but for everything else (country, medieval, folk, blues, jazz) I use my silver flute. I've been thinking about getting a wooden headjoint one day.

As for Indian music, I use my hariprasad bansuri by Jeff Whittier. You can't do the quarter tones and the sound just isn't right on anything but a good bansuri. However, there is a ravi Shankar album called "improvisations" in which he teams up with some silver flute players, Gary Peacock on bass, and some others. It's pretty wild.

Ravi Shankar also has another recording called "Concerto for Sitar" It's not a true traditional indian piece, but the silver flute player really sounds good.

I think almost anything can be done on a silver flute.

I look at it like this, and feel free to slam me. Folk music is the music of the people. Simple people who make due with what they have, be it a washboard, concertina, old wooden flute found in a pawn shop, etc. I had a silver flute when I started playing ITM and made due with it. So in a way, the philosophy of tradition is there. I think that because of the small size of the ITM community, there's a bit of a grudge against silver flutes. I just don't get it.

Cheers fellas,

Lee

[mutepointe]

update:

i played the silver flute in church for the first time last night. things went well and it adds a pretty touch to some songs that i couldn't achieve with a whistle.

i play the guitar in church and although i can play a whislte and a harmonica while still wearing my guitar, i couldn't manage this will a silver flute. i had to pass on playing the flute for one Mass part because quickly removing a guitar and putting it back on wasn't achievable.

i learned how to play the whistle and the irish flute left-handed and i'm just going to keep playing them left-handed. i was curious if anyone else plays irish instruments left-handed and the silver flute right-handed? not that i have a lot of brain cells to get in the way but amazingly, the rethinking the fingering isn't even a consideration. it just works.

[jim stone]

Well, what do you play on the silver flute if not classical?
Sincere question. I can play one, I've discovered. I've
noodled enough on 'em, read enough threads like this one,
and the embouchure is way easier that an Irish flute.
I sound pretty good on a silver flute.

But short of learning music and launching into classical
or jazz, which I'm not about to do, what do you play?
I mean I know I can play ITM on 'em, if I figure
out how to stop the clacking on rolls, but Irish flute
is better. And they sound kind of airy fairy to me.

Is there a folk repertoire for these. You know the
violin makes a great folk instrument, but
but imagine bluegrass silver flute!

well, I think you can play just about anything you want on a silver flute if you work hard enough on it. Listen to Noel Rice. He's great. Also, check out the "John Renbourn live in america" CD set. That flute player is playing a lot of irish ornamentation and gets a charming sound.

Why couldn't bluegrass be played on a silver flute? I know lots of people who do it and they blow my mind and how good they are. It's all about how much you work on it. All about the skills of the player.

I play mostly irish and medieval music. For irish music, I use my irish flute but for everything else (country, medieval, folk, blues, jazz) I use my silver flute. I've been thinking about getting a wooden headjoint one day.

As for Indian music, I use my hariprasad bansuri by Jeff Whittier. You can't do the quarter tones and the sound just isn't right on anything but a good bansuri. However, there is a ravi Shankar album called "improvisations" in which he teams up with some silver flute players, Gary Peacock on bass, and some others. It's pretty wild.

Ravi Shankar also has another recording called "Concerto for Sitar" It's not a true traditional indian piece, but the silver flute player really sounds good.

I think almost anything can be done on a silver flute.

I look at it like this, and feel free to slam me. Folk music is the music of the people. Simple people who make due with what they have, be it a washboard, concertina, old wooden flute found in a pawn shop, etc. I had a silver flute when I started playing ITM and made due with it. So in a way, the philosophy of tradition is there. I think that because of the small size of the ITM community, there's a bit of a grudge against silver flutes. I just don't get it.

Cheers fellas,

Lee

Very sensible.

I once attempted to play recorder (I was much younger,
addicted to various drugs, and so on) with a bluegrass
group. After a couple of numbers they looked at me
and said: 'That sounds foreign! Alien!'

I shudder to remember this....

I try not to think of what they would have said
if I'd whipped out a silver boehm flute.

I'm actually trying to use Irish flute with
bluegrass and old time. Not exactly sure
it will work. Whistle clearly works.

I use Irish flute for country, blues, rock, etc.
The woody, gutsy sound is OK. The Olwell
pratten is very good, the low end blends
nicely. My problem with
silver flute has been what I described as
its 'airy fairy' sound. I figure one wants a rougher,
less pure sound.

However I take the point that the silver flute
can be so played by experienced musicians.

[TheSpoonMan]

My problem with
silver flute has been what I described as
its 'airy fairy' sound. I figure one wants a rougher,
less pure sound.

Dunno if this has been mentioned here... but try rotating the mouthpiece inward. I move it in very far in; it's harder to play, but gives a much thicker, more "irish" sound that way.

[peeplj]

My problem with
silver flute has been what I described as
its 'airy fairy' sound. I figure one wants a rougher,
less pure sound.

Dunno if this has been mentioned here... but try rotating the mouthpiece inward. I move it in very far in; it's harder to play, but gives a much thicker, more "irish" sound that way.

Just a note on this:

It's not actually the rolling in of the headjoint that makes the difference in the sound.

To get that thicker, darker sound, you need to hit the far edge of the embouchure hole with a precisely focused, intense jet of air...that is true for any kind of flute, be it Boehm-system or simple-system (or Irish, if you prefer).

Rolling the headjoint in makes this easier, because you are covering more of the embouchure hole and the far edge is closer. It's easier to focus the airstream on something that's closer to your lips.

With time and practice, you can learn to achieve this same focus without covering as much of the embouchure hole, which improves the sound yet again, keeping the same dark timbre but making it louder and more projective.

--James

[jim stone]

OK, what about clicking keys on ornaments?
I rather cringe at the thought of rolls and crans on the
silver flute.

And slides? How does one do them?

Sincere questions!

[peeplj]

OK, what about clicking keys on ornaments?
I rather cringe at the thought of rolls and crans on the
silver flute.

And slides? How does one do them?

Sincere questions!

Some flutes are clickier than others.

A high-end flute will usually have a key mechanism that makes almost no sound at all.

I've heard Joannie Madden play in person and you couldn't hear her keys. If you'd have closed your eyes, it would have been easy to think she was playing a wooden flute.

As for slides, they aren't unique to ITM. Classical musicians call them "portamento," and there are classical flutists who can do them over two full octaves. (I'm not one of them, but nonetheless, it can be done.)

Slides do take a different approach then they do on the wooden flute, but if you wish, they can be done.

--James

[jim stone]

Thanks. How much is a high-end flute?

[peeplj]

Thanks. How much is a high-end flute?

http://www.flutes.com/index.html

Just to give you an idea of what's out there.

Better prices are available for some of these; however, for a performance level Boehm system flute, be prepared to go at least $2000 to $4000.

They do go up from there.

--James

[jim stone]

This summer in bloomington IN I played at Prowinds
a used Gemeinhart with a silver headjoint and a silver
plated body. I played it a fair amount, went in several
times. It sounded good, the embouchure from wooden
flutes is certainly adequate. So it was tempting.
I think it was about 600 dollars.

It did click a good deal. Too bad. Geez the
prices on that list! Plainly for pros.

[jemtheflute]

Thanks. How much is a high-end flute?

Well, you did ask, Jim! Those sorts of prices make even the upper end of our market look quite modest, don't they? In our world it's only the major collectors'/museum treasures that go much above c£4000/$8000.

[peeplj]

Jim, you can take a flute like that Gemeinhardt, get it in the hands of a good repair person, spend several hundred again on it, and you'll wind up with a flute that plays very well indeed.

Note: I'm not talking about the repair folks at the local music shop who service marching band instruments. I'm talking someone that knows flutes inside and out. Figure on spending more on getting a used intermediate flute set up right than you did for the flute itself. But you'll wind up with an instrument that sings.

Or do what I did, and learn to do the work yourself, but be aware it's not something you master overnight, and know that you'll make your flute play worse many times over again before you ever learn to make it play better. It's both frustrating and time-consuming to learn, but is very satisfying once you have the ability to really make a flute play its best.

--James