Another Buddhist retreat

[jim stone]

......It was so hot that the meditation hall was impossible after 7 AM.
........

If the sensation that the heat has become unbearable
arises in the mind
simply observe that the sensation has arisen in the mind
Do not attempt to block it it out
Do not attempt to remedy it
Do not attempt to celebrate it
Simply observe
Observe the arising of the sensation of unbearable heat
in the mind
Observe the sensation of suffering during its duration
and
observe
the passing away of the sensation
in the mind

Thus continues the practice of observation
in the sitting position ......

Sensation of heat...
Sensation of heat...
Aversion...Aversion...
Wishing I had never come to this
God forsaken monastery....
Sleepiness....
Wondering what they'll give me for lunch...
Craving for French Fries.
Sleepiness....
ketchup....
Sensation of heat....
Sexual fantasy...
Wishing I had taken up Sufi Dancing instead...
Sensation of heat...
Sensation of heat...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

[jim stone]

Thanks for these descriptions of retreats. I spent a few days
in a Benedictine monastery in Vt doing research a long time
ago, so I have some feeling for Catholic monasteries.

I suppose the benefits of retreats are similar in most
every religious tradition (and I do wish to include the
activist sort of retreat Bill mentioned).

If there is a difference, it's that many Buddhist retreats tend
to consist very largely of a certain technique, the
mindfulness or scanning practice that Talisiga
described above (and I parodied, except my account
was pretty accurate, at least about myself).
The idea is to extend this meditative awareness to
everything one does, including eating, walking,
using the toilet, etc. It is said that, in retreat centers
in Asia, the teacher may ask the student whether she
woke up on an in-breath or an out-breath.

This method is meant to produce enlightenment, or
a substantial taste of it, in about ten days, which
is the standard time for the standard retreat.
So it's very intense. There is no talking at all
(except in interviews with the teacher), no eye
contact, no reading and no writing. Movements
are deliberately slowed down. There is a technique
for eating meditatively, so that a meal takes
four times as long as usual.

However most everybody has a job, cleaning, washing
dishes, vacuuming. The meditation center is largely
run by the yogis. It takes about an hour a day,
which often means 100 hours of work a day,
as there may be 100 yogis at a retreat.

The method involved was developed in Burma in
the last century, however it is closely based on
the Buddha's meditation instructions, as recorded
in the Pali suttas.

It seems to me that the benefits of prayer are likely
to be profound, especially a lot of prayer, and perhaps
do something similar.

At home one is supposed to continue the meditative
practice an hour and a half a day.

The Bad News about the practice is that it is time consuming,
labor intensive, and boring.

The Good News is that it works. It makes you kind,
calm, and serene.

[straycat82]

It has been very interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with this. I live in a big city where Buddhism (and other Eastern religions) are merely a fad or trend; the folks with money for brains who get bored easily will become "buddhist" because it is something that is perceived as eccentric and fascinating... basically it gives them something to talk/brag about at dinner or the night club.

I find it appalling that people insult traditions and religions in this way for the selfish goal of seeming interesting to others.

Thanks for the realistic and honest (and humorous ) insight.

[Jack]

I agree, but I must point out that in Christianity, there's really no clear divide, doctrinally speaking, between personal and corporate devotion.

Tell that to Simone Weil or Doris Grumbach.

[jim stone]

It has been very interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with this. I live in a big city where Buddhism (and other Eastern religions) are merely a fad or trend; the folks with money for brains who get bored easily will become "buddhist" because it is something that is perceived as eccentric and fascinating... basically it gives them something to talk/brag about at dinner or the night club.

I find it appalling that people insult traditions and religions in this way for the selfish goal of seeming interesting to others.

Thanks for the realistic and honest (and humorous ) insight.

Thank you.

There is very little real practice. I spent some time in Thailand
and there was little real practice there, either. Occasionally
one finds people in groups in a city who want to sit in silence
a good deal, but it's rare.

A friend, my wife and I have started a small group here in
St. Louis. Two hours of sitting on Sat aft. People sometimes
come, stay for a few weeks, till the novelty wears off,
then realize practice is difficult and boring, and leave.

The people who stay are usually those who have done
a long retreat, like ten days, in silence. In the first one
of those I did I would have left if I could, I was so bored
and deprived of the things that made my life bearable.
But we were out in the country and they had my car
keys. I hated meditation, I hated the teacher... I decided,
finally, that I wouldn't do anything foolish, I would stay
to the end and then I would go away and never come back,
and that would be my reward. On the tenth day they
let us begin talking again and, to my amazement,
I was happier and freer than I had ever been in my life.
There was no ego, the mindfulness practice had burned
it up, and in its place was a delicious ease and grace.
Freedom.

People who have been through a long retreat are willing
to sit through boredom and the mind complaining...
because they've done it before and know it is part of the
process of getting free. Otherwise you're just bored
and, oh well,....

Buddhist practice doesn't make you more interesting or
more charismatic. Enlightenment isn't shining eyes and
novel ideas. It's emptiness, there's a lot less of you
than there was before.

This summer my wife and I were meditating with a Japanese Zen teacher
in Bloomington IN, a very good one. After these long sittings
we would all sit outside and eat water melons. People talked
about various things. This guy had
meditated a lot for 28 years. He didn't have an ego.
He just drank things up, moment by moment. If I had turned
to him and said: 'Let me tell you--everything you have done
and stood for for all these years, all this meditation, is
utter worthless rubbish!' I'm convinced he would have looked
at me with interest and responded:

'Is that so?'

[TheSpoonMan]

I agree, but I must point out that in Christianity, there's really no clear divide, doctrinally speaking, between personal and corporate devotion.

Tell that to Simone Weil or Doris Grumbach.

Well okay, sorry, I should have said, in traditional, lower-case o orthodox, "conservative" (or some of conservative), etc, Christianity. I don't know what it's like for everyone, nowadays, who calls themselves Christians, but that's usually how it works from what I've seen and read. And that's not to say personal devotional time, even lasting days (look at Jesus' forty days in the wilderness), is never appropriate, just that isn't a huge priority among most Christians, because the emphasis is usually more on communal than individual religious life.

[anniemcu]

It has been very interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with this. I live in a big city where Buddhism (and other Eastern religions) are merely a fad or trend; the folks with money for brains who get bored easily will become "buddhist" because it is something that is perceived as eccentric and fascinating... basically it gives them something to talk/brag about at dinner or the night club.

I find it appalling that people insult traditions and religions in this way for the selfish goal of seeming interesting to others.

Thanks for the realistic and honest (and humorous ) insight.

I've noticed that this is the same approach many take with any religion they are trying on for size. It is almost always an attempt to appear cool, knowledgable, or acceptable, until they honestly begin to relate the teachings to their own lives ... then, perhaps, they may find part of themselves in honest pursuit of the inspiration. Though sometimes it's a quest for redemption for something they can't forgive themselves for.

[anniemcu]

duplicate duplicate post post

[Jack]

It makes me extremely happy when intelligent people can discuss religion with honest questions and honest answers and not resort to name-calling and personal attacks.

That has nothing to do with retreats in particular, but I just wanted to say that.

[s1m0n]

Isn't 'buddhist retreat' redundant? I've never heard of a buddhist offensive.

[TheSpoonMan]

What Cran said!

Isn't 'buddhist retreat' redundant? I've never heard of a buddhist offensive.

I've heard the government in the Union of Myanmar described as a "militant Buddhist regime"; the article was about their persecution of Christians (among other groups), and the incident I remember is the forced reloction of some children of Christian parents to Buddhist boarding schools. I don't know how officially Buddhist the gov't is, though.

I've noticed that this is the same approach many take with any religion they are trying on for size. It is almost always an attempt to appear cool, knowledgable, or acceptable, until they honestly begin to relate the teachings to their own lives ... then, perhaps, they may find part of themselves in honest pursuit of the inspiration. Though sometimes it's a quest for redemption for something they can't forgive themselves for.

Yeah, people will do that. I've seen that in everything from Catholicism to Neopaganism to whatever. Sometimes it turns out fine, and they really become honest followers of whatever religion it is... and then sometimes it just stays shallow forever. Or they quit. *shrug* It just frustrates me, though, people not being honest with themselves, but instead just following the same way everyone else is.

[djm]

This kind of stuff goes on all the time. Your charitable donations to overseas missions often fund Christian organizations that set their converts to beat up and terrorize Buddhists (Thailand is rife with these sorts of goings on). There is no "innocent" side. In Korea, Buddhist monks regularly go on strike or perform acts of civil disobedince when they don't like any public action that might interfere with their power base or land holdings.

It is easy for us to ask, "Is that Buddhism?" but remember that the Pope is one of the richest and most powerful men in the world. The Papal bank was caught red handed funding Argentina's Falklands war against England. Examples of abuses of money and power and corruption can be found at every turn in any organized religion (remember Jerry Falwell?).

Anywhere you see religious bodies exerting secular power you know there is more than spirituality at work.

djm

[Jack]

Examples of abuses of money and power and corruption can be found at every turn in any organized religion (remember Jerry Falwell?).

Quakerism (for example) is generally not an organized religion (no clergy, no church hierarchy, no formal rituals, no creed, no grand church buildings, etc), but there are still plenty of corrupt Quakers. I immediately think of Richard Nixon, God rest his soul. My point is not to get political with that statement, but, rather, (I hope) to point out that corruptness is not necessarily a function of institutions but of individuals. It’s in our human nature to be corrupt, it seems. Not just in religion but in a lot of matters, unfortunately. There are corrupt CEOs everywhere, and the Pope and Jerry Falwell are kinds of CEOs.

[Doug_Tipple]

Isn't 'buddhist retreat' redundant? I've never heard of a buddhist offensive.

Without sounding too irreligious here, the above quote reminds me a an experience in Walmart this week. I think that I was in the cat food department of the store when a loud voice on the intercom announced, "Associates, may I have your attention. We are now going into a zone defense." The announcer said it twice with a sense of urgency in his voice. All that I could think of was basketball practice in high school when the coach would yell, "Wake up, Tipple, I said zone defense". I have never heard of a buddhist offensive, but I don't think that I want to imagine what a Walmart zone defense is.

I have never been to a Buddhist "retreat", but I have been to a number of Sufi retreats over the years. I think that when you completely shift gears and do something completely different for a period of time, that can't help but make a big change in your perception.

When I was in my twenties, I retreated to a small community near the Mexican border in the American southwest. I worked for a small mining exploration company, and for days at a stretch I would be completely by myself on the mining property in the desert mountains. I didn't have electricity, running water, a telephone, or a radio. I certainly didn't have a cell phone to use in case of an emergency. I remember how quiet it was. Coming back into the little town after being alone for days was always a jolt to my senses.

[jim stone]

In Sri Lanka the endless civil war between Hindu Tamils in
the south and Buddhists in the rest of the country, was
a consequence of Buddhist chauvinism and discrimination
against Tamils. I stayed in Sri Lanka for a couple of
months and I occasionally heard Buddhists say,
emphatically: 'This is a Buddhist country!'

I don't know what precisely is motivating the military
elite in Burma, however there is no question that they
are devout Buddhists. Also I've been told by Burmese
in a position to know that they practice meditation.
And they are capable of horrible things.

However the
history of Buddhism is a good deal more pacific
than that of most other major religions.

I think the point is that nobody is safe, and that means
me. That one meditates, believes in peace, and so on,
is no guarantee that one isn't acting like a pig.

It's really helpful to remember that. I once pointed out to
a meditation teacher, who was saying Buddhist meditation
leads to peace with all, that some very nasty people in
Burma do Buddhist meditation of the same sort
he teaches (and I practice). I remember he got angry.

He is, you see, attached to his method. And there I think
one finds the bright line. It isn't ultimately the love of
power and money, though obviously that is a form
of the problem, a particularly virulent one.
The root is attachment. The civil
war in Sri Lanka was motivated, not by people
who were after power and money, but by
people who had a fierce pride in Buddhism.
Some of the monastic scholars who have written some
of the greatest books published about Buddhism,
were driving forces behind the civil war because they were deeply attached to Buddhism.

Ego doesn't see itself and it's subtle, and it attaches
to this and that--to money, to power, to meditation,
to Buddhism, to Christianity, to God, to this or that
'ism.' ..... And then
we defend these things not seeing that we are
really defending ourselves.