Loch Lomond on the electric penny whistle

[Steamwalker]

In defense of Banjo ...

Fair play to you, Steamwalker. Maybe I could have been more diplomatic. But to make a distinction, my hostility is directed not at the poster, who is probably a lovely fellow, but at the clip itself and -- as I said -- at the kind of exercise it represents. I think it's reasonable to read the post as an invitation to comment, so comment I did. If "positive opinions only" was implied, I guess I missed that. Obviously, some people will feel otherwise, and that's fine. Different strokes, and all that, especially here under the big C&F tent. If the poster expressed interest in the complex reasons for my particular strong reaction, as I had asked about his reasons for promoting himself here, I might be happy to explain, for what it's worth. We might both learn something. But a reply of contempt seems intended to stifle that dialogue. So I'll shut up for now!

Not a problem, MTGuru. My point was simply that it's hard not to take such a comment personally. Say, hypothetically, the original poster posted a youtube clip of him singing a song. Would the response to that clip of "I'm hostile to this sort of "music", and think the clip sounds execrably bad" seem more personal in that case? I didn't mean to imply that any sort of criticism is unwarranted, I just sympathize. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or anything.

[BanjoBoog]

Hi folks:

If there is some weird "traditional vs. new" thing going on with the penny whistle, I could care less; I've already been through years of that nonsense with the banjo. I'm here to enjoy myself and hopefully learn how to become a better player. I've made one CD, but I'd like the next one to include something more than just the banjo, so I thought doing some duets with a whistle would be nice (especially if I can get the whistle electronically to sound like bagpipes ).

[peeplj]

Brings back memories...

BanjoBoog, welcome to the forum!

There are whistlers here of all levels of knowledge and experience. Many if not most play Irish trad, but there is certainly room for someone coming from another direction.

--James

[crookedtune]

Speaking as both a banjo and whistle player, I too have dealt with my share of hardline traditionalists. I'll be the first to say that MTGuru isn't one of them. Despite being an outrageously good trad player, he rips up the whistle in lots of other ways, including modern jazz. I know what prompted his terse reply to to the clip, but I'm sure he didn't aim to offend. As he said, this is a discussion board, and we all post opinions and challenge each other. It's all in good fun.

Banjoboog, I play oldtime clawhammer and 2-finger banjo. I'll admit to having been lured into sending that stuff through signal-processing too. It's fun and interesting. So far it hasn't led me to anything I felt like pursuing any further, but your experience may be different. I encourage you to experiment and share your results. There's room for threads of all kinds here.

[Tim2723]

BTW, I recall seeing actual electronic bagpipes advertised somewhere a while back. I think Lark carried them. Didn't someone invent something similar for a whistle? I've seen an electronic 'wind' instrument a couple of times on TV that looked like it was some kind of wind-blown synthesizer or something.

[fearfaoin]

I finally got around to watching your clip, BanjoBoog. I am open to
such experimentation, and would like to offer my opinion, if you
wish to read it (and if not, just skip past the rest...)

I think it's interesting that the reverb being held acts as harmonic
structure behind the melody, but at the volume level you have the
reverb, the melody really gets lost. Is there a way to increase the
decay such that the reverb is just backing for the melody, rather
than overpowering it?
Also, what is causing the almost ultrasound-like "schwa-schwa"
sound? It reminds me of a brain-wave generator... I'm just curious
if that's a result of the reverb, or some other effect.

[straycat82]

Were it not for the video I would have guessed that it was a guitar solo from an 80's movie montage . If that's the sound you were going for then fair play to you. Otherwise, and looking at this clip objectively, I'd have to agree with fearfaoin that the reverb gets so muddy that it overpowers the melody.
If you are asking for advice to better your playing, it's hard to do so with such an overly processed recording, you may want to post another one with raw footage if you are after an honest critique to improve your playing. By watching your fingers I can tell that you need to be a little more relaxed and fluid in your playing... that's all the advice I can offer from what the video gives.
If you're looking to sound more bagpipe-esqe, you may consider laying down multiple tracks, one with the melody and others with just a drone. I don't know much about the highland bagpipes and how the drones are pitched (though I know the chanter is in Bb) but if you're playing on a D whistle then perhaps try doing three individual drone tracks on D, F# and A to lay under the melody.

Cheers,
Johnny

[MTGuru]

Not a problem, MTGuru.

Thanks, Steamwalker, I understand completely. We're on the same page.

[MaryC]

OK, thanks for the information.

Hmmm ... So you bring yourself to our attention, and then respond with contempt to a polite but honest reaction? Good luck to you.

psst ... MT ... don't feel the trolls, it only encourages 'em!

[BanjoBoog]

Taking the bait ... Can you describe your setup in more detail? It looks like simply a whistle with some sort of pickup device taped near the fipple. I'm not sure how that makes it "electric". Also, I don't understand the bit about "no added processing". It sounds like there's a ton of reverb and digital delay, to the point that you can't even hear the whistle. Thanks for the clarification!

Full disclosure: I'm hostile to this sort of "music", and think the clip sounds execrably bad. But I'm open to understanding the technical details, and why you think this clip is worth sharing. Thanks again.

First of all, I wasn't laying out any bait. I just signed up here because I'm a musician who is interested in the whistle. I've always thought it was a beautiful instrument, of elegant simplicity, and I have great respect for those who play it well; I do not. I thought it would be a nice way of introducing myself, and since I'd been messing with duct tape, a whistle and a pickup (Red Green would be proud), I thought I'd do that. That was my very first recording on a whistle at all.


No, what bothered me was Full disclosure:

As far as I'm concerned it is perfectly okay for you or any one else to say my stuff is absolute crap. That's an honest opinion and that's fine. If you want to tell me why, or don't want to tell me why, that's up to you.

I'm hostile to this sort of "music"
As one gentleman pointed out, it's the the quotes that were the problem. I think it's very bad manners to express hostility and denigrate what some one does because ... I don't know, you tell me ... when that some one is to you a completely unknown quantity, and shows up for the first time for a bit of musical fun. I treat that attitude with contempt.


But I'm open to understanding the technical details, and why you think this clip is worth sharing.

Why I think this clip is worth sharing is none of your business.

[BanjoBoog]

Speaking as both a banjo and whistle player, I too have dealt with my share of hardline traditionalists. I'll be the first to say that MTGuru isn't one of them. Despite being an outrageously good trad player, he rips up the whistle in lots of other ways, including modern jazz. I know what prompted his terse reply to to the clip, but I'm sure he didn't aim to offend. As he said, this is a discussion board, and we all post opinions and challenge each other. It's all in good fun.

Banjoboog, I play oldtime clawhammer and 2-finger banjo. I'll admit to having been lured into sending that stuff through signal-processing too. It's fun and interesting. So far it hasn't led me to anything I felt like pursuing any further, but your experience may be different. I encourage you to experiment and share your results. There's room for threads of all kinds here.

Hi crookedtune:

Thanks very much for your comments. I've taken things quite a distance. I frail and play Scruggs style but I've developed a new style of playing using mizrabs (sitar finger picks), they allow me to do things you can't do with standard finger picks. Anyway, if you're interested I've got a YouTube channel at:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BanjoBoog

... lots of Rock and Roll


I like to experiment with sound. I am completely deaf on one side and it's half gone on the other, so I indulge myself

[BanjoBoog]

BTW, I recall seeing actual electronic bagpipes advertised somewhere a while back. I think Lark carried them. Didn't someone invent something similar for a whistle? I've seen an electronic 'wind' instrument a couple of times on TV that looked like it was some kind of wind-blown synthesizer or something.

You know, I don't think I'd actually want something like that, but I am really curious how they would work.

[BanjoBoog]

I finally got around to watching your clip, BanjoBoog. I am open to
such experimentation, and would like to offer my opinion, if you
wish to read it (and if not, just skip past the rest...)

I think it's interesting that the reverb being held acts as harmonic
structure behind the melody, but at the volume level you have the
reverb, the melody really gets lost. Is there a way to increase the
decay such that the reverb is just backing for the melody, rather
than overpowering it?
Also, what is causing the almost ultrasound-like "schwa-schwa"
sound? It reminds me of a brain-wave generator... I'm just curious
if that's a result of the reverb, or some other effect.

Hi fearfaoin:
I have no idea I can't hear the "schwa-schwa" ... deafness. I suspect it is just that I used the wrong tool for the job. I'll take another crack at it with the lapel mic and post it as an mp3.

Thanks very much.

[BanjoBoog]

Were it not for the video I would have guessed that it was a guitar solo from an 80's movie montage . If that's the sound you were going for then fair play to you. Otherwise, and looking at this clip objectively, I'd have to agree with fearfaoin that the reverb gets so muddy that it overpowers the melody.
If you are asking for advice to better your playing, it's hard to do so with such an overly processed recording, you may want to post another one with raw footage if you are after an honest critique to improve your playing. By watching your fingers I can tell that you need to be a little more relaxed and fluid in your playing... that's all the advice I can offer from what the video gives.
If you're looking to sound more bagpipe-esqe, you may consider laying down multiple tracks, one with the melody and others with just a drone. I don't know much about the highland bagpipes and how the drones are pitched (though I know the chanter is in Bb) but if you're playing on a D whistle then perhaps try doing three individual drone tracks on D, F# and A to lay under the melody.

Cheers,
Johnny

Hi Johnny:
Thanks very much. I actually had no idea what was going to come out. This was my first whistle recording. Yup, the reverb's over the top alright I shall try again.

Thanks very much for the information on the drones - I've saved it to a text file.

Cheers!

[Dale]

Just a friendly reminder to be friendly to newcomers.
And, a request to newcomers not to react too quickly and sharply to criticism.