Question about embouchure differences.

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:55 pm

I've been playing my McGee GLP w/ improved elliptical embouchure for about a year and a half, am very comfortable with it, and I can usually get as much volume as I want from it. This week, Jon C. sent me a couple of flutes to try out, which brings up this question. One of the flutes, a William Hall is very similar in most ways to my GLP, and I'm pretty comfortable playing it, although there are differences. The other one, however, is giving me fits on the bottom end. It's a J. Wallis 8-key Rudall type flute, and is a really strong player for me down to F#, then the E is weaker, and the D is weaker yet. Last night, I was finally able to get the D, C#, and C to speak fairly reliably, but they were all pretty quiet. Definitely can't get any kind of strong, hard sound out of the D without it jumping into the second and sometime third octave. It seems that if I give it more than the least little breath, it jumps.

Does this sound like a difference in embouchure, a difference in flute design, or is it me? Thoughts?

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:02 pm

It almost sounds like you're leaking from one or both F keys.

Sometimes in shipment boxes get banged around pretty good...eyeball those keys closely and see if you can tell if the pads are actually sealing on all sides, or make yourself a feeler guage and check with that.

--James

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:15 pm

quit blowing and start sucking...

ah, leak test time

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:15 pm

I know that the long F was leaking on the first night. Seemed like it had a bit too much play in the keyway. Anyway, I talked to Jon about oiling it, and he said to go ahead, so I removed all the keys and oiled 'er up. I also cleaned the key seats and keyways, and wiped down the keys as well, just to be sure that nothing was causing any of them to swing out of true, let it sit for a while before wiping off the excess oil and putting it back together. That stopped the leaking on the long F, and the short one looks good as well. After that, the D and E both improved, but are still not where they ought to be. I also did the suck test, and can't locate a leak anywhere. I wonder if the leaking could be around the tenon when it's put together? The joints seem to be fairly tight, but still wobble a bit.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:17 pm

could be most anywhere... a small leak near the head may no be noticeable 'till ya get to the low notes.

Sillydill · Post by **Sillydill** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:19 pm

Hey Dow,

I'm with James, check the F keys. You can do a "suck test" with the RH section by placing your left thumb over the socket and covering the holes with your fingers and then lightly sucking on the tennon. If the keys and pads are good, the section will hold a vacuum. If your thumb doesn't fit in the socket you could use the palm of your left hand....

You can check each section this way and then try to check with the sections joined.

I've also found that many of the older keyed flutes E's and usually F's sound much better with the Eb key vented.

You should also suck test the head to make sure the tuning cork and slide are sealing.

All the Best!

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:23 pm

Hmm... if it leaks in the lower octave, shouldn't it leak in the second octave as well? It's really strong from the G on up through the second octave to the third octave d.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:27 pm

yes...however a small leak may not be noticeable above low F...you said it was weak not gone!

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:33 pm

Okay, that makes sense. I'll give it another look when I get home tonight. Thanks for the advice, guys. I was thinking that my lip might have been sprung or something, lol.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:33 pm

I would say if a joint can wobble, it can definitely leak.

--James

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:36 pm

On the joint fit, they seem good and tight going together, but then once they're all the way in, there's a bit of wobble sometimes. I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to be consistent. Could it just be my inexperience with threaded joints? the McGee has cork.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:37 pm

sure can

if your joints are wobbly, use a pipe.

kids...whadda they teach 'em?

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:38 pm

Denny wrote:sure can

if your joints are wobbly, use a pipe.

kids...whadda they teach 'em?

bwahahahaha!

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:40 pm

the thread is fine at the open end but the last part is not as wide so the tendon will rock a bit.

someone want to translate that last bit into Engrish?

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:41 pm

Denny wrote:the thread is fine at the open end but the last part is not as wide so the tendon will rock a bit.

someone want to translate that last bit into Engrish?

I think I've got it. It might be that the thread is laid on a bit thicker on the end of the tenon, and might need a bit more on up toward the shoulder?