Contactless Allergies

[Justcim]

Hello everyone,

I just received my first wooden flute, which is a Terry McGee Rudall Refined
in African Blackwood . It is a lovely instrument to play as well as to look at,
which I did a lot of both when I first received it (10 minute sessions
anyway, to break it in of course).

However, that night I felt horrible, my sinuses were stopped up and I had
drainage running down my throat causing my stomach to act up (not a very
pleasant situation, as you might imagine). I thought I had caught a cold or
something. As the next day progressed, my sinuses gradually cleared. Of
course, I thought this was great since I could play my new flute again. So,
as soon as I got back home I put the flute together just to play a few tunes
and guess what? Yep, My sinuses started acting up again and that is when
I realized that I was allergic to blackwood.

I know there were quite a few threads on allergies, but I did not find many
on non contact allergies. If someone else has experience with this type of
allergy, I have a few questions.

Is it because the flute is new? Has anyone else been able to just thoroughly
clean the flute and let it age for a little bit and your allergic reaction
subsided? Or should I just deem it hopeless and contact Terry to see if he
will trade with me for a flute in Cooktown Ironwood or any other less "exotic"
wood?

Thanks,
Justin

[greenspiderweb]

Hi Justin,

That's too bad about your allergy to your new flute. But, since it's that severe, I would just contact Terry now.

I wouln't be a bit surprised that he's encountered this before with some previous customer, or at least has heard of it before.

Yes, I would think that there probably is a different wood flute in store for you in the future to keep playing. Good luck with it, and let us know how it works out for you.

[Doug_Tipple]

Justin, for what it's worth, I am allergic to blackwood and other hardwoods. However, I don't seem to have a problem with the Cooktown
ironwood. If you are able to trade, I would give ironwood a try. I think that it is prettier than blackwood, as well.

[jim stone]

I've read that boxwood is the most non-allergic wood, FWIW.

I wouldn't touch that flute, personally. There is the slight chance
that there is something on it, an oil for instance, which
is the real culprit. Terry will know.

If not, I sure would trade for something else.
These allergies are nasty and tend to keep going
once they start.

[Justcim]

That's not the answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear how if I just made
sure it was cleaned thoroughly with some magical technique (or magical
potion, or a combination of both), it would not make my allergies flare up. But
alas, life is not that good to me, granted, I can not complain about it too much,
but it isn't that good to me.

I can be quite stubborn so this weekend I am going to try to conduct a
controlled experiment that verifies 100% that is the blackwood and not just
something else I am allergic to that just happened to come floating around
just as I started playing that flute (it could happen... right?).

But most likely I am going to have to heed to the consensus that blackwood is
definitely not the wood for me.

[jim stone]

Right. We the living are the lucky ones.
Also, there are other woods and some of them
are probably OK for you. A good number of us
run into allergies at some point with flutes.

If it was me and I was stubborn I would:

A. First, contact Terry and find out if the wood is
treated with something and what it is.
I had a boxwood flute from Pat Olwell that
set my lips on fire for about two months.
It wasn't the boxwood. I'm fine with
boxwood. Something on it to protect it.

B. Do you know if you are allergic to almond oil?
I suppose you can find out. Get some good grade
almond oil and rub it on your lips. If you're
OK, you're not allergic to it.

C. If you're not allergic to it, clean the flute, inside
and outside, carefully with almond oil. Rub
the outside with an almond oil treated paper
towel, then wipe it off. Then do it again.
Good for new flutes.

D. Then, being stubborn, I would play the flute
and see what happened.

Good luck!

[Jon C.]

Possibly it is the linseed oil that he treats the blackwood with? I have problems with linseed sometimes, constriction in throat, sinus problems. Maybe there is some way to flush it out, or seal it with wax? It might naturally disipate if it is a solvent problem. Terry will have all the answers for you.

[Nanohedron]

That's not the answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear how if I just made
sure it was cleaned thoroughly with some magical technique (or magical
potion, or a combination of both), it would not make my allergies flare up. But
alas, life is not that good to me, granted, I can not complain about it too much,
but it isn't that good to me.

I can be quite stubborn so this weekend I am going to try to conduct a
controlled experiment that verifies 100% that is the blackwood and not just
something else I am allergic to that just happened to come floating around
just as I started playing that flute (it could happen... right?).

But most likely I am going to have to heed to the consensus that blackwood is
definitely not the wood for me.

I'm not sure from your above post if and to what degree you have tried cleaning it, so here's an exerpt from a PM I sent to another Chiffer with blackwood trouble. It worked for me when my new flute was giving me a reaction even with the lip plate. If anything in the instructions doesn't apply (ex. keys, lip plate), you can ignore it, but the sprit of it stands. If it doesn't help, I'd agree then that you may indeed need to look at boxwood or the like. Here 'tis:

First clean the case but good: there is probably residual shop dust in it, and it helped me to get rid of that. First give it a good vacuuming, and then wipe down the exterior with a soft damp cloth, and then tackle the interior with a good hard rubdown with same. I recall it took a few goings-over, plus rinsing the cloth, until the cloth came away clean-looking.

Next do the same with the flute, inside and out. Again, this will probably take a few repeats. Be sure to remove the keys and wipe down the pads as well as the touches, and don't neglect the pad seats and toneholes, keyed or unkeyed, and the embouchure cut, needless to say. I was surprised how much dust I got from all of that. Hit every surface you can, even the endcap's surfaces in and out, and do it thoroughly, even if it seems a bit of overkill to do so. It won't be.

Alcohol as a further precaution on the [lip] plate is a good thing; just use cotton swabs and take care to avoid the wood. At a molecular level, there may still be some [blackwood] oils in the plate, but they probably will be too minimal to count. After all that, you *should* be good to go.

You could even give the whole works another go-over with a fresh damp cloth just to be sure.

Oh, and any time you oil it, be sure to clean the plate with alcohol again. Oils seem to vector the irritants.

Hope that'll help, and the best of luck to you.

Give it a shot, be thorough, and good luck.

Obviously for the interior surfaces of the flute you'd need a stick to move the cloth around. For the record, I'm not a fan of those swabbing sticks with that little slot at one end to fish a corner of your swabbing cloth through. Just get a thin but sturdy-enough length of dowelling to do the job, is my opinion. But that's your choice. I'd also suggest a mess of cotton swabs for the embouchure cut and toneholes, and any crevices, too. Just use water and keep tossing 'em until they come away clean.

Oil - as suggested - might do the same job, but water's cheaper as you really need to be sure the flute's as clean as you can get it, which means multiple go-overs. And not to worry: water won't hurt the flute as you're not soaking it, after all. All the cleaning cloth needs to be is a bit damp, and you can rinse it out and repeat the process quite easily. We're dealing with blackwood, here; it's innately oily and resinous already, so a damp cloth's no problem. But if you want to go the oil route, that should be fine so long as you're thorough. What I DO know is the water worked perfectly fine for me, and with unarguable success. The main thing is to keep cleaning until you see no more traces of blackwood dust whatever you do. An attractive plus in favor of the oil-and-paper-towel method is that you'd be tossing the used towelling instead of rinsing it out, and using fresh sheets. For the case, though, I don't think oil's the best idea.

If your case has a polyfoam lining, I'd get rid of that as I don't believe one can ever clean it well enough; wipe down the hard surfaces of the case shell, and install fresh, clean foam. Cut channels for the flute parts as you need. Simple V-cut troughs are usually sufficient, although you may want to do some extra removal in places to accommodate some keys. It doesn't have to be pretty. It has to be clean. That's the prime directive here.

[Justcim]

Thanks for all the advice so far, I will contact Terry to find out what he treats
the woods with to see if that may be a source of my problem as well.

I'm not sure from your above post if and to what degree you have tried cleaning it...

The only cleaning I have done is swabbing it out after I played it. I do
remember the first time I ran a rag through it, it did pick up some blackwood
dust in the head. Of course, I did not clean the inside before I tried to play it
the first time (impatience strikes again). So, it might be that when I played it I
inhaled the blackwood dust that was still in the bore and/or on the outside of
the flute. I will give your advice a try and hopefully the only problem I was
having was inhaling that dust.

Thanks,
Justin

[Nanohedron]

And just to belabor the point, don't forget the embouchure and toneholes. My embouchure cut was black with dust! Toneholes and especially the pad seats, too.

[Gordon]

I've fortunately never had a problem with flute-woods, but I do suffer from multiple allergies. Most of my allergies are inhalent problems - cat dander, molds, mildews, tree pollen, etc., I thought I'd suggest something here, if nothing else, to slow down the rush to judgement about blackwood.

In my opinion, it's very unlikely you're allergic to the wood, since your symptoms suggest somthing airborne, and nothing from the wood itself should be airborne. The advice that you clean out the case/box it arrived in is a good one -- but -- better yet -- take the flute out and put the case elsewhere; if the box is what's causing the problem, fussing with it will only set you back a day or two. Then, oil the flute with something you know you're not allergic to (almond is bad for some, so are many of the organic oils -- try a pure mineral oil. If you're not allergic to Vaseline, you won't react to mineral oil). If anything's kicking around the flute from Terry's shop -- from wood dust to cat dander (I actually get second-hand dander problems sitting next to people who own cats!) it should now be smothered, and not airborne.

Try the flute. Allergies to wood generally appear as a dermatological problem at first, not a wheezing, sneezing one. I think something's airborne here, and it ain't your flute!

Gordon

[Nanohedron]

Gordon, I don't think you read my shop-dust post in its entirety at all, did you.

[scheky]

I've fortunately never had a problem with flute-woods, but I do suffer from multiple allergies. Most of my allergies are inhalent problems - cat dander, molds, mildews, tree pollen, etc., I thought I'd suggest something here, if nothing else, to slow down the rush to judgement about blackwood.

In my opinion, it's very unlikely you're allergic to the wood, since your symptoms suggest somthing airborne, and nothing from the wood itself should be airborne. The advice that you clean out the case/box it arrived in is a good one -- but -- better yet -- take the flute out and put the case elsewhere; if the box is what's causing the problem, fussing with it will only set you back a day or two. Then, oil the flute with something you know you're not allergic to (almond is bad for some, so are many of the organic oils -- try a pure mineral oil. If you're not allergic to Vaseline, you won't react to mineral oil). If anything's kicking around the flute from Terry's shop -- from wood dust to cat dander (I actually get second-hand dander problems sitting next to people who own cats!) it should now be smothered, and not airborne.

Try the flute. Allergies to wood generally appear as a dermatological problem at first, not a wheezing, sneezing one. I think something's airborne here, and it ain't your flute!

Gordon

I'd go so far as to say you are completely off the mark on that last paragraph Gordon. Though you obviously mean well, you are wrong. I show not a single dermatological reaction to woods, but when my lungs get whatever dust particles abound (and I'm not sure you CAN get them all out...ever) into them, well...I'm pretty much screwed for breathing. I made the same assumption you state when I got my Blackwood Thin Weasel. I managed to actually damage my lungs by not paying heed.

If you are having respiratory problems from it, do your test, but DO NOT take any risks. It's not worth it.

[Nanohedron]

Right. Wood dust - particularly from exotic hardwoods - is a prime irritant and a serious occupational hazard to woodworkers. Some have gone into anaphylactic shock from it. There's plenty of info on that out there already.

[Gordon]

Not off the mark at all; to quote Nano, you didn't read my post very well, did you?

I understand that wood dust will cause these problems. What I said was that there'll be no wood dust if the flute is well-oiled and cleaned out (yes, Nano, in the embouchure and finger holes, too.) The wood dust you describe takes place during lathing, sanding, etc. Dust does not fly off wood; it will not enter your lungs.

But, sorry if my well-meaning but off-the-mark comments kills someone. I didn't know the gun was loaded.

Gordon