politics in the pub

[talasiga]

Australia has a tradition of politics in the pub. There are various pubs that explictly have politics in the pub.

How much does this derive from an Irish working class ethos which is a dominant element in the mainstream aussie culture?

If forced to choose, I reckon most Australians would prefer to discuss the transportation of convicts and their latrine facilities than the transportation of cats and their "litter".

We are a minority, I know.

[djm]

Why do you assume this comes from an Irish background? There is little if any Irishness to this pub as far as I have seen.

djm

[talasiga]

Why do you assume this comes from an Irish background? ......

Where exactly in my post do you discern this alleged assumption?
Or is the assumption somewaht implied by the fact that the first of google findings in my link lists the 1st floor of the Gaelic Club as the venue for the "politics in the pub" sessions.

Or did you read somewhere that I used to be a white collar union delegate and the leadership of my trade union was dominated by the following name types:
O'Sullivan, Cahill, Twohill, Carey, O'Hanian, Hannan, Harris and the like?

And what is it they discussed at the pub?
(I'll give you licence to assume that one, my dear boy).

[Denny]

I thought it a Scot with a cat in a box

[djm]

Where exactly in my post do you discern this alleged assumption?

How much does this derive from an Irish working class ethos

I think you have answerd your own question.

Isn't it possible that the pub culture may as easily have come from English rituals, as they are the ones who governed both Ireland and Australia when such cultures were being formed?

djm

[talasiga]

Where exactly in my post do you discern this alleged assumption?

How much does this derive from an Irish working class ethos

I think you have answerd your own question.

Isn't it possible that the pub culture may as easily have come from English rituals, as they are the ones who governed both Ireland and Australia when such cultures were being formed?

djm

Are you suggesting that my latter question was answered by my earlier question which you omitted to quote in full so as not to show that I was actually asking a question rather than asserting an assumption as can be seen by the whole of that sentence quoted here:

.....How much does this derive from an Irish working class ethos which is a dominant element in the mainstream aussie culture?

.......

?

Or did you mean that you discern assumptions underpinning my original question? In which case I would ask you ........

[djm]

I meant that your original question ONLY referred to an Irish tradition. There were also a lot of English and Scots involved with the settlement of Australia, let alone the structuring of its laws and the setting of cultural tone. So another way to ask my question would be: Why do you only refer to an Irish working class ethos in pubs, when it is quite possible, maybe even likely, that the pub ethos referred to is an English working class one?

How's that?

djm

[talasiga]

Isn't it possible that the pub culture may as easily have come from English rituals, as they are the ones who governed both Ireland and Australia when such cultures were being formed?

djm

Why do you assume that there is one monolithic pub culture?
Why do you assume that if the pub was introduced into Ireland during the period of British "governance" that the CONTENT of interactions between Irish patrons would necessarily have to be defined by British ethos?
Why do you assume that British governance was necessarily wholly manned by the British?

[talasiga]

I meant that your original question ONLY referred to an Irish tradition. There were also a lot of English and Scots involved with the settlement of Australia, let alone the structuring of its laws and the setting of cultural tone. So another way to ask my question would be: Why do you only refer to an Irish working class ethos in pubs, when it is quite possible, maybe even likely, that the pub ethos referred to is an English working class one?

How's that?

Hozzat? Well, its pretty dim, djm. I'll tell yer y.

My original question, of the Irish strand, described it as a dominant one and not THE dominant one. Therefore it invites consideration of the other groups mentioned, particularly as the question turns on "how much". That is, its a question about quantifying and qualifying the Irish explanation of the phenomenon.

Of course Australia is no longer as clearly cleaved along those ethnic lines as it was , say, up to 30 years ago or so. Howver certain marks of history continue.

[Innocent Bystander]

I'd say cloven, but then that's just me. So many things are cloven. Ozzie Society, Irish Society, relations between men and women, you name it.

But I had a look at the Politics link you posted, and it seemed to be about having speakers to speak on topics. That's not something I ever noticed in Ireland. Bands, yes, comedians, yes, but serious topics... in the pub? Blinking flip, that's where people go to get away from that stuff. Not to say serious topics might not arise, but that is an entirely different thing. And political discussions might arise, but if you would not be discussing political matters in a pub whose political provenance you did not know. The location of the pub would largely be all the clue you would need for the political provenance. An unguarded tongue in a strange pub would be a very dangerous thing indeed. Perhaps things have changed, but I venture to suggest not so dramatically, so very quickly.

If you were going to have a speaker on a serious topic, you would have it in the Village Hall or (sigh!) the Church Hall. Often the same thing. I put it to you, that in Australia, the Village Hall (or Church Hall) is less of a feature than the pub, and the pub has taken over the some of the functions of that institution.

[Nanohedron]

My goodness. If I didn't know better, I would have thought this to be a veiled push to render TEH BOARD pointless.

[Coffee]

I can't speak for Irish, Australian, or any other culture for that matter, but I know that when the conversation at the pub across the street from my house turns political I promptly clam up; it's a lot harder to put your foot in your mouth of said orifice remains shut.

[izzarina]

My goodness. If I didn't know better, I would have thought this to be a veiled push to render TEH BOARD pointless.

Maybe Tal had missed your posting the link, Nano, and it was his way of fooling you into doing it. It really had been quite some time since you had.

[izzarina]

I'd say cloven, but then that's just me. So many things are cloven. Ozzie Society, Irish Society, relations between men and women, you name it.

Pigs feet are too.

Oh, and I'd agree with you. Cloven does seem to fit better.

[Nanohedron]

My goodness. If I didn't know better, I would have thought this to be a veiled push to render TEH BOARD pointless.

Maybe Tal had missed your posting the link, Nano, and it was his way of fooling you into doing it. It really had been quite some time since you had.

Nano categorically denies that he could be manipulated so.