Pug recall

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Redwolf
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Post by Redwolf »

cowtime wrote:
Cofaidh wrote:Every dog I've had was a pound puppy. Each one of them was a good friend, intelligent, loyal, and healthy. Mutts each of them, but loveable all the more for that. Pugs are a good example of what can go wrong with 'breeding.'
Well, yeah, but as someone who bred and showed skye terriers for 25 years(during which I was responsible for 13 more skyes entering the world) and worked as a veterinary technician for too many years. I certainly don't buy into the mutts are better thing. We saw just as many mixed breeds with genetic problems. I always felt like with purebreds we could better predict what problems, along with positives, might arise. But, if anyone just wants a dog, any dog as long as it's canine and has a decent personality, I'm the first to say "adopt from the pound". (I've got four mixed breeds laying here asleep as I type this).
Same here, from the poodle world. I've seen more mixed breeds than well-bred poodles with genetic problems.

BTW, if one more person tells me they want a "peke-a-poo," a "schnoodle," or, God help us, a "labradoodle," I swear I will scream! If you want a mutt, by all means, get one...the pounds are full of them, and they make wonderful, loving pets. If you want a purebred, don't buy a mutt and give it a fancy name!

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Post by Coffee »

Ya gotta admit though that labradoodle has a humorous ring to it.
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Post by Redwolf »

Cofaidh wrote:Ya gotta admit though that labradoodle has a humorous ring to it.
Especially when you're laughing at all those people who spend more money for a mutt than they would for either a purebred lab or a purebred standard poodle, thinking it's a "special" breed.

I once interrupted a pet store employee who was assuring a potential customer that "AKC recognition is pending" for "the poodle crosses" (they were trying to justify a $2000 price tag for a "cock-a-poo"...i.e., a mixture between a poodle and a cocker spaniel). When I informed the would be buyer that a) the AKC does not approve of, and will never recognize, attempts to create "new" breeds by crossing breeds, and that b) they could get a purebred cocker or a purebred poodle (pet quality) from a reputable breeder for considerably less, the manager of the store had me thrown out (but, fortunately, the would-be buyer left as well).

Reminds me of the ad I once saw for "Englebrit spaniels." Turned out that one hunter's English setter had had an unauthorized liason with another's Brittany, so they were trying to capitalize on the situation by advertising the pups as a rare breed! :lol:

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Post by Coffee »

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pure bred dogs in general, but ya see, I'm a bit of a night owl. My work however has me waking quite early though, which means I tend to not get as much sleep as I should, and I tend to wake up rather bleary. Also, I can be a bit of a clutz at times. All this means of course that any pets I have would have to be large enough that, should I trip over them, they won't die from it. This rules out all of the palm-puppies, toy dogs, and miniatures. I tend to avoid anything smaller than a whippet actually.

Oh, what would you call a cross between a wolfhound and a dearhound?
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Post by missy »

Cofaidh wrote:
Oh, what would you call a cross between a wolfhound and a dearhound?
a pony?? :D
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Post by BrassBlower »

Cofaidh wrote:Oh, what would you call a cross between a wolfhound and a dearhound?
A werewolf. :wink:
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Post by jsluder »

Cofaidh wrote:Oh, what would you call a cross between a wolfhound and a dearhound?
Deerhound:
Image


Dear hound:
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Post by Walden »

So... the choice is inbred AKC dogs or mutant mutts?

I had a pug when I was 4 or 5. Wonderful little dog. Wasn't a registered dog, though. We have a couple of poodles... not registered, but not mixed breed, either... descended from registered stock.

Cats are nice.
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Post by Redwolf »

Walden wrote:So... the choice is inbred AKC dogs or mutant mutts?

I had a pug when I was 4 or 5. Wonderful little dog. Wasn't a registered dog, though. We have a couple of poodles... not registered, but not mixed breed, either... descended from registered stock.

Cats are nice.
Not all purebreds are inbred.

The best breeders practice a combination of line breeding and out-crosses, always with an eye to keeping the breed healthy. That's another advantage to a purebred...you can actually check the lineage for evidence of inbreeding, as well as for genetic red flags. For example, because my dog's parents are both Optigen A, I know he's not at risk for progressive retinal atrophy. Because they both have OFA ratings of "Excellent," I know he's not likely to suffer from hip dysplasia or patellar subluxation. I also know that his blood line is free of seizure disorders.

Also, not all purebreds are registered by the AKC. There are lovely breeds all over the world that the AKC doesn't register because they aren't sufficiently popular here to have built up a breed club and a stud book. We also have a second registry here in the U.S.: The UKC (United Kennel Club). It registers many breeds that aren't AKC registerable, such as the various American coonhound breeds (the AKC only recognizes the Black and Tan).

My current dog, Wiley, isn't registered, because his previous owner didn't register him, and refused to return his papers to the breeder so she could have him registered. Since he's neutered, it doesn't matter all that much, unless I want to show him in obedience (in which case, I'll have no trouble getting an ILP number for him). I probably won't bother, though, as his damaged rear leg probably would disqualify him from competing in Open (jumping isn't his strong suit).

He's still a pretty boy, though!

Image

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Post by cowtime »

As usual, Redwolf is exactly right!

I use to tell clients that their "papers" were only necessary if they planned to show or breed and technically, those papers were only as accurate as the breeders were honest. We use to see the occasional puppy that was registered but was obviously NOT purebred. That would open a "whole 'nother can of worms".

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Post by Chuck_Clark »

Redwolf wrote:BTW, if one more person tells me they want a "peke-a-poo," a "schnoodle," or, God help us, a "labradoodle," I swear I will scream! If you want a mutt, by all means, get one...the pounds are full of them, and they make wonderful, loving pets. If you want a purebred, don't buy a mutt and give it a fancy name!

Redwolf
The trouble with the labradoodles is that the Aussies deliberately bred them and then puffed them up all over the internet as perfect working/search dogs (http://www.manorlakelabradoodles.com/node/10). As far as know, their Kennel Club then recognized them as a "breed". Then that donkey who wrote "The Dog Encyclopedia" listed then as a "miscellaneous breed" (read: mutt).

So, now you have all these morons who believe anything they see online or in print demanding them - and the demand being met by the worst of the backyard breeders and puppy mills - the very yahoos whose dogs are by far the LEAST worthy of reproduction. Labs and poodles are both proof that the worst thing that can happen to breed is popularity - and most American labradoodles are the product of the worst of both.

This is why I stay with an obscure and little known breed - in the fervent hope that they'll stay that way.
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Post by missy »

one of your best "bets" is to find a breed specific rescue. You can often find out the temperment of the dog (they are almost always "fostered" for a bit), you usually get an adult dog (no puppy chewing, etc.) and you are helping save a life.

I've got two rescue boxers laying at the bottom of the bed currently. We know one had a traumatic puppyhood, but he's otherwise a great dog. The other is just plain stupid, but loveable.
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Post by Redwolf »

missy wrote:one of your best "bets" is to find a breed specific rescue. You can often find out the temperment of the dog (they are almost always "fostered" for a bit), you usually get an adult dog (no puppy chewing, etc.) and you are helping save a life.

I've got two rescue boxers laying at the bottom of the bed currently. We know one had a traumatic puppyhood, but he's otherwise a great dog. The other is just plain stupid, but loveable.
Wiley is a rescue, though he came to us through his breeder. His previous owners abused him, then dumped him at a local groomer and called the breeder to come get him. She then had to have him fostered for several weeks by Poodle Rescue before she was able to make arrangements for his return.

He's a great dog, but he has a lot of bad habits that we're slowly but surely working on...most significantly (especially for a poodle!), he fights being groomed. My guess is, at some time during his rebellious adolescence, he flashed a tooth at someone who was brushing him or handling his paws, that person was intimidated, and a pattern was set. He's gradually learning that his new mommy doesn't intimidate easily, but it would be so much easier if I'd had the training of him since he was a puppy!

He's also never been trained out of the puppy habits of mouthing hands and nipping at clothes, but those are easier to work with using consistency and distraction.

I remember reading about the "creation" of the "labradoodle," and even at the time I thought "how stupid!" The guy who did it claimed that they would be ideal guide dogs for people with allergies. What he didn't take into account is that the ONLY reason poodles aren't generally used for guide dogs is that "hypoallergenic, non-shedding coat", which needs to be thoroughly brushed and de-matted daily, and trimmed every four to six weeks. The same is true for all "non-shedding" breeds...including his newly minted mutt. Labradors already make outstanding guide dogs, as we all know, and both breeds are excellent field dogs.

BTW, another way to get an excellent purebred dog is to apply to a guide dog school for a retiree or a "drop out." These dogs are bred for good health, soundness, and emotional stability, and are given meticulous early training. Often, however, a particular dog just doesn't have quite what it takes to be a guide dog. When that happens, the dog is offered first to the family that raised him, but it they don't want or can't take him, he's offered for adoption. Also, when a dog is retired from active service (usually around the age of seven), he's offered as a pet first to his blind companion and then to the family who raised him, and again, if neither can take him, to an adoptive home.

I'm constantly telling people that regsitration, or even "champions in his pedigree," don't mean any more than the paper they're printed on. All purebred dogs have champions in the pedigree somewhere and, as cowtime pointed out, the registration process is very easy to subvert, which results in a lot of "registered" dogs who are clearly not purebred. A friend of mine in college fell afoul of something like that once. She purchased what she was told was a purebred, registered basenji puppy. Even though the puppy was black and white and both (purported) parents were reds, she bought the story (and the dog). If she'd known much at all about basenjis, she would have been suspicious, as two red parents can't throw a black puppy (the red gene is recessive). There were other indicators, including floppy ears and a puppy who barked rather than "yodeled," but she wouldn't be dissuaded. She eventually went to the law, however when a breeder at a benched show she visited told her point blank that there was no way her pup was a basenji. It ultimately turned out that a local pit bull had gotten to the mother when she was in season...the "breeder" decided to try to capitalize on this by using his own basenji male's registration number to register the litter, and showing him to prospective buyers as the sire. Since no one actually does anything to verify that the dogs on the registration slip are actually the parents of the puppy (the AKC just takes the breeder's word for it), this kind of thing happens more often than many people realize. The only answer is to know your breed and know your breeder.

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Post by djm »

Redwolf wrote:that "hypoallergenic, non-shedding coat", which needs to be thoroughly brushed and de-matted daily, and trimmed every four to six weeks.
Is that why poodles are so often shaved right down so close to the skin, to prevent or resolve matting? (sorry, I never had a dog and know squat about them).

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Post by I.D.10-t »

Redwolf wrote:BTW, another way to get an excellent purebred dog is to apply to a guide dog school for a retiree or a "drop out."
I have heard that Police dog drop-outs and retired greyhounds also make nice pets.
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