Question about Songs?

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:12 pm

Your not just whistlin' Dixie!

Sorry... It was only a matter of time.

I thought I'd get it over with.

awildman · Post by **awildman** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:22 pm

straycat82 wrote: Whether slavery was an acceptable way of living or not, the things that were done to the human beings in captivity were cruel and unexcusabel no matter what you call it.
Slavery may have ended in 1860 but racism and bigotry did not. Without knowing this individual we cannot possibly know if he did or didn't have a valid psychological wound. I agree that it would not excuse him from his behavior but the way you react to said behavior can potentially make a difference on whether it worsens right then or diffuses.

You're applying modern thinking to events that happened hundreds of years ago.

I wholehearted agree that we should learn from the past. But to say that actions of the past are inexcusable is just incorrect. Only if somebody knows better is something inexcusable, and ignorance ran rampant back then.

Yes, there is still racism and bigotry here today. But Black people do more to perpetuate certain stereotypes than anybody else. How about in DC where Pizza Hut refuses to deliver to Black neighborhoods? What, are white folk coming into the area and robbing the pizza guy? Hardly.

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:26 pm

s1m0n wrote:
CranberryDog wrote:Odds are that the drunk is a racist.
That's a fairly ingracious way to look at it; I think it's more likely to say, a man with a (valid) psychic wound from growing up black in a racist nation, and was unfortunately impaired enough to be pointing it at a proxy target which had no real part in his resentment.

This is the kind of situation I usually resolve by saying "I didn't know that; thank you very much, I'll certainly look into it..." He goes away feeling like his perspective got acknowleged, even valued, and I get to avoid any more hassle.

I'd even *do* a little looking into, much as the OP did here. Who knows? Maybe he's right and I'll learn something.

Please, learn to spell; the word is "ungracious".

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:39 pm

CranberryDog wrote: Please, learn to spell; the word is "ungracious".

O RLY?

Not the word I'm using.

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:10 pm

mutepointe · Post by **mutepointe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:17 pm

while slavery was occurring, there were plenty of people who thought slavery was wrong and spoke up about it. first of all, there were the slaves themselves, then the abolitionists, and you sure didn't see anyone signing up to be a slave for the fringe benefits. so even white folks had to know slavery wasn't a good thing or they would have taken that away from the black people too. there was ignorance then and ignorance now and it still don't make ignorance right.

i liked simon's response, much more diplomatic. i always just tell drunks, "o, i don't argue with drunks." maybe i'm just telling the right people but they all walk away. plus, it's fun.

also, you can't please everyone all the time, so please yourself.

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:35 pm

awildman wrote:Dude. Simon. Are you serious? Valid psychic wound? Unfortunately impaired? He was drunk by his own choice. Fortune had nothing to do with it. Perhaps he does feel deeply about some wrongs that were/are committed. Is this type of boorish behavior going to do anything to change people's opinion of him specifically, and Black people in general? If he were to claim that toilets were a white man's invention and duke one out on the sidewalk would you also excuse that behavior?

And how do you tell somebody, "I didn't know that; thank you very much, I'll certainly look into it..." when you're blowing into a whistle? The guy was drunk, he's probably not looking for any compassion or acknowledgment. The guy was rudely interrupting a performance. I find it hard to believe that that statement would have ended his rude behavior. Have you ever been around drunk people? Come on.

As a manager of 10 years, I must say that I've been around Black people quite a bit. I can tell you that those who have a major chip on their shoulder are the laziest, sketchiest employees I have ever had. Those who were trying to work their way through life and make something of themselves(like any white American) were the best employees I've had. From the description, this man seems to fall under the chip on shoulder category. And society is trying to atone for perceived wrongs* done. EEO, scholarships, etc.

*Slavery was not considered wrong at the time. How anybody can even consider that we shouldn't have committed slavery is beyond me. It had been done for thousands of years (and still being done to a degree, today) so how would we know better? Slavery was outlawed in the 1860s, we don't do it anymore, now let's move on, shall we?

As for the 'valid psychic wound' thing, when are people going to start taking responsibility for their actions? Blaming others gets you nowhere in life. Hard work does.

In my less enlightened days, I'd have called you an idiot. Personally, I don't think your blathering rates that high on the scale though. "Like any White American"???? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Can you be more of a bigot if you tried? I can tell you firmly that I've met MANY a lazy "White American" with a big chip on his shoulder.

I'm done with this thread.

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:37 pm

Scheky - I'm with you there bro.

This has become politics and should get bumped there.

FWIW - if you're remotely interested in the mechanics of racism etc etc have a look at the work of Jane Elliot( http://www.janeelliott.com/ ). You'll probably not be surprised to see that anyone can be forced into the stereotypical negative behaviours mentioned - no matter what colour, shape, sex or brand they may be. Ignorance is not something confined to the past - it is a day-to-day choice made by all of us. Always has been.

KCJiang · Post by **KCJiang** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:11 pm

Thanks for some good ideas of checking the background of the melodies and to handle the situation. Hopefully, I can play some very beautiful America old songs that will not offend others. If you have one or more of those type of tunes, please let me know.

Is it "ok" to play "red river valley" and "Clementine"? They are simple and beautiful.

Thanks,
KC

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:40 pm

scheky wrote:
awildman wrote:Dude. Simon. Are you serious? Valid psychic wound?....
In my less enlightened days, I'd have called you an idiot. Personally, I don't think your blathering rates that high on the scale though. "Like any White American"???? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Can you be more of a bigot if you tried? I can tell you firmly that I've met MANY a lazy "White American" with a big chip on his shoulder.

I'm done with this thread.

Seems to have been a big jump downhill. Was the original of the post you quoted deleted?

awildman · Post by **awildman** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:32 am

No, my posts seem to still be there.

I agree, this is getting rather political, which is not my intent. I am merely trying to make the point that we cannot live in the past. Look at it, learn from it, certainly, but we live in the present. I know that the past is not rosy clean, and things were done and we knew better. But because of the lack of education and world knowledge, our forefathers didn't understand the full ramifications of what they were doing. That is the ignorance I was referring to.

I think the biggest thing we can do to contribute to racism is to make excuses for our actions, and others. I'm kinda sad to see that blame was placed on being drunk. Getting drunk, and all the actions as a result are a choice. They are not an accident. As for 'valid' psychic trauma, I do have my doubts about that. Why does it have to be trauma? Why not just wounding? And who determines if it is valid? That sounds like PC excuses for behavior to me, hence my incredulity. Yes, there is still tons of bigotry in existence. I agree. Rodney King etc etc. At what point, though, do we stop crying over spilt milk and start cleaning it up?

Shenky, I'm a little unclear, are you calling me an idiot or not? I believe you used the words, 'blathering,' 'idiot,' and 'bigot'. Just what is it you're getting at?

As for 'white Americans' I was simply referring to the fact that many white Americans have started on the bottom, and have overcome many things to lead decent lives(Irish, anybody? That's a case of white-on-white racism, if ever there was one) I should not have used the word 'all.' Thank you for pointing that out. And as for many of us whites being lazy and chip-laden, i couldn't agree more. There are plenty of white douchebags to go around as well. I didn't think we were discussing white folks' behavior, so I didn't address that.
[For the record, I do not believe that i am bigoted in any way, as I have an extremely open mind. I have strong opinions about many things, but am always open to be convinced I am wrong. It's happened many times before. If by bigot you mean I am anti-black, then you're just plain wrong. I am anti-rudeness and anti-makingexcuses. Not to mention anti-selfishness, anti-dishonesty, and anti-fakeness. Oh and I'm definitely anti-enablingalloftheabove. Maybe that does make me bigoted. ]

I think this is my cue to bow out of this thread. Before I start talking about all the good that Hitler did.

houstonwhistler · Post by **houstonwhistler** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:13 am

If someone chooses to waste their life dwelling on hate and misdirected anger, you can't make yourself responsible for that. It's that person's life and that's the choice that he made. That person could just as easily channel their energy in a positve and productive direction, but obviously chooses not to.
If you like the song, play the song.

HW

p.s. Next time bring an extra whistle and offer to teach him. You can't be mad and hateful while playing the whistle.

breqwas · Post by **breqwas** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:15 am

You can't be mad and hateful while playing the whistle.

You can, but you'll have problems with breath control :)

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:35 pm

breqwas wrote:
You can't be mad and hateful while playing the whistle.
You can, but you'll have problems with breath control

You mean a PizzedWhizzler?

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 pm

greenspiderweb wrote:
breqwas wrote:
You can't be mad and hateful while playing the whistle.
You can, but you'll have problems with breath control
You mean a PizzedWhizzler?