Flute Maintenance- Wood Vs. Plastic

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:21 am

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that a polymer flute is the perfect flute for every flutist...far from it.

There are cases where I think they make a lot of sense:

--some people are allergic to tonewoods. Without polymer flutes, these folks would most likely wind up either playing silver flutes or no flute at all;

--a promising young learner may have the musical aptitude to learn to play flute but not the level of maturity yet to care for a wooden instrument. I speak from experience on this, having seen firsthand many times the damage done by young school flutists to the (metal!) instruments that they play, and I shudder to think of a Hamilton or an Olwell or God-forbid a historical flute undergoing that kind of care;

--a polymer flute is great for those who travel frequently. Wood may not be particularly fragile but if you frequently change climates with a wooden flute, it can crack.

--a polymer flute makes a great choice for those looking for a backup instrument (or for a "desk flute") because they need no special care and they can be left assembled indefinitely without damage

I maintain that flutes are going to vary more by maker than by material; for instance, a McGee flute in blackwood and a McGee flute in Delrin are going to be more similar in the way they play than are a McGee flute in blackwood and a Hamilton flute in blackwood.

Best to all,

--James

manu.bande · Post by **manu.bande** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:45 am

Hi Cocusflute

by the way my name's Manuel , please feel free to call me like that ...

About China producing most of plastic products nowdays... , yes I have to agree , it is ...but actually the buyers are mostly from western countries ,included your country wich by the way I like very much !
It means that foreigners give the money for producing most of the plastic things that are selling around the world !
Please think about that a bit ...

And remember that foregneirs are forced to go to China because most of their country have the economical need ( let's just say that the business men can make much more profict and the rest of the people can buy things cheaper ) , but that's all consumism and it just go from one place to the other !!!

I could go much more deeper in this matter but I think this is not the place for that and I sincerily apologize with the rest of you about my reply to cocusflute , but I think that cocusflute's reply about China it's not an appropriate one in this forum as right now is my reply !
Sorry again to Mr Dale and all of you !

Well ... getting back to delrin and wooden flutes , I still convinced that the sound of my delrin flute is as good as my wooden flute , sure they'll have some differents tonal (color ,etc,) qualities but I belive that the cause it would be the diferences in blowing hole and bore construction .
Or perhaps it's me that getting a good embouchure with irish flutes ?!?!

I'd like to say also that I'm agree with Berti66 about the slippery/greasy problem on delrin flutes , my hands sweating a lot but never slip out of my McGee flute !
I belive , as Berti66 said ,it depends on the finish of the delrin flute ( every maker probaly use some different method ) .

About the fishroll converted in shakuhachi , well I'd really like to belive that it could be possible to make a decent shakuhachi out of a fishroll

But unfortunatly I guess you just ,perhaps can get out of it something that would looking like a primitive flute made out of bone !

BTW, I very appreciate the idea of making a musical instrument out of a fishroll !

Best to all of you

Manuel

Bridges-PdP · Post by **Bridges-PdP** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:57 am

I'm a beginner. I own a CB FF, M&E and a Forbes. The FF is nice, mine is setup for smaller hands. I have a hard time half-holing a G# on it. It sounds nice and I like the mopane.

The M&E is heavy, has a nice tone and seems very durable. Half-holing is easier

The Forbes is light, well-crafted and sounds very nice. It also seems quite durable. Seems louder than the M&E and is easier to half-hole.

Right now, I'm trying to decide which two of the three to sell.

I live in Haiti during the school year and visit the midwest during the holidays. I enjoy caring for the FF, but its nice to be able to leave either of the others assembled indefinitely and know that I can wash them with soap and water and never worry about rapid temp/humidity changes.

Not sure I'll ever be up to owning any flute over $500 while in Haiti. Crime is often a problem where I live and I just wouldn't want to see an expensive flute stolen.

So, I'm a beginner living in 'extraordinary circumstances'. Polymer is good, wood is good. Political instability, hunger and poverty are bad. Polymer is easier travel with. Carry it on or check it, it'll survive and I won't have to eat an antacid wondering about the safety of my flute.

I will say this concerning my choice of polymer: I'm poor and that's a lifestyle I choose daily. When I buy a flute I have to balance criteria like tone, balance, responsiveness and 'soul' with durability, price and availability. If flute is your art and you'll spend any amount on your art then the discussion of polymer vs. wood is moot. Flute is not my art, its a diversion I happen to like.

and before anyone starts with the 'a superior flute maintains it's value and is therefore a good investment' tell that to your banker.

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:05 am

manu.bande wrote:About the fishroll converted in shakuhachi , well I'd really like to belive that it could be possible to make a decent shakuhachi out of a fishroll

It is best to start with the carrot ocarina. The fishroll Shakuhachi is an advanced instrument.

manu.bande · Post by **manu.bande** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:45 pm

A carrot ocarina... hmmm ,I like it as well !

Or perhaps a even less advanced instrument , a baguette didjeridoo !

Manuel

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:01 pm

manu.bande wrote:About the fishroll converted in shakuhachi , well I'd really like to belive that it could be possible to make a decent shakuhachi out of a fishroll

But unfortunatly I guess you just ,perhaps can get out of it something that would looking like a primitive flute made out of bone !

BTW, I very appreciate the idea of making a musical instrument out of a fishroll !

Best to all of you

Manuel

It is - or was - on YouTube somewhere, Manuel. Someone posted it in this forum, I think it was, and I saw it for myself. I couldn't believe the pure tone he got out of a fishroll, of all things, and the fish-o-hachi made right there on the fly! And he'd bend it, too, to make some pitch changes. Can't do that with wood OR Delrin.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:05 pm

It is - or was - on YouTube somewhere, Manuel. Someone posted it in this forum, I think it was, and I saw it for myself. I couldn't believe the pure tone he got out of a fishroll, of all things, and the fish-o-hachi made right there on the fly! And he'd bend it, too, to make some pitch changes. Can't do that with wood OR Delrin.

Wasn't it Hammy Hamilton who made a flute from nylon that you could bend in your hands?

You might could get some interesting special-effect-type sounds by bending the thing around...

--James

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:08 pm

peeplj wrote:
It is - or was - on YouTube somewhere, Manuel. Someone posted it in this forum, I think it was, and I saw it for myself. I couldn't believe the pure tone he got out of a fishroll, of all things, and the fish-o-hachi made right there on the fly! And he'd bend it, too, to make some pitch changes. Can't do that with wood OR Delrin.
Wasn't it Hammy Hamilton who made a flute from nylon that you could bend in your hands?

You might could get some interesting special-effect-type sounds by bending the thing around...

--James

Haven't heard of that one, but I wouldn't be surprised. Now you've got me eyeing a roll of clear silicon tubing that's by my feet...

manu.bande · Post by **manu.bande** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:10 pm

I wish I had the opportunity to watch the video !

Do you have any link ?

Manuel

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:14 pm

Aha! Here you go (it's a Japanese variety show):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGIVrw8I4CU

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:18 pm

Nanohedron wrote:Aha! Here you go (it's a Japanese variety show):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGIVrw8I4CU

Hmm. Sorry about that. Looks like the link is defunct so far as the actual vid is concerned. Maybe it's still out there, though...but maybe not. YouTube's been expunging copyrighted material, and maybe that show falls under that category, as I'm unable to find it.

Maybe someone downloaded it?

manu.bande · Post by **manu.bande** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:31 pm

No luck this time ,

I've opened the link but there was just the writing : the video has been removed .......

Sometime it is difficult from here to open videos or some website , what to do ?!?!

Never mind and thank's !

Manuel

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 pm

Doc Jones wrote: I prefer wood. That said, I love the freedom of a polymer tooter.
Doc

Amen. I played my Forbes for about 6 hours in the cool damp at Augusta the other night, and the best feature besides just running the head under the dorm sink before bed? The tuning hardly changed at all. It was light, my hands didn't hurt the next day, and the flute was dry in the morning. And it turns out I wasn't alone in thinking it's a really cool little flute as evidenced by the comments of others who played it (one very respected person in particular). It's also nice that it fits in my jacket pocket!

I'm lucky to have some terrific wooden flutes, the least of which cost twice as much, and the most expensive of which cost about 8 times as much. I love them and love playing them.

But as far as my Delrin Forbes flute goes, it's a better instrument than any comparably priced wooden flute (not that many exist unless you're talented and patient enough to fix up an ebay special), I'll say that straight up. For $400, I've not met any flute, in any material, that comes close to this one.

So if it's a price question, I'll stand on that. I don't consider myself good enough to teach, but if I did I'd rather have a student playing an in-tune plastic flute she can get a sound out of and that she can't mess up as opposed to struggling with some of the kindling some folks think passes for a working instrument.

OK, rant over. We now return to our regularly scheduled sunny personality.

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:43 pm

Another question: how much of the percieved tonal difference between woods and plastics can be attributed to a psychosomatic effect? Expectation has a history of altering perception.

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:38 pm

cocusflute wrote:People who argued in support of plastic did so for other considerations than musical. An exception was the guy from China, the home of all things plastic: “a delrin flute well made by a top maker can sounds good as one made in blackwood!”). Did you know that 99% of all the world’s toys are now made in China? What do you suppose these toys are made of?

So diversion and derision are the basis of your counterargument? Lest we forget that the only makers of any serious simple system plastic flutes are American or Irish. In fact Delrin was invented by an American company (Dupont, also invented CFCs and implicated in nuclear sales to Iraq) and PVC discovered by Europeans and extensively commercialized by an American company (BF Goodrich). Finally, which countries come to mind when discussing gross deforestation and rare and exotic wood depletion?

Finely machined plastic sounds fantastic to me (when properly played). So does wood. And I am not affiliated with any toy factory.

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Flute Maintenance- Wood Vs. Plastic

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