Need advice

[Huffer]

Hi everyone. I'm looking to buy a bohem metal flute to play Irish, English country dance and contra dance tunes. My priorities are comfort, light weight & ease of play (I have a bit of arthritis). Also, since I'm aiming for a folk/Irish kind of sound I'm interested more in warmth & color than in perfect pitch (if that's the right way to think about these things). I'm assuming as well that an open-holed flute would be most useful in this case?

Anything else I should be thinking about? Any advice or recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

[gododdin]

Hi Huffer and welcome!

I'm pretty much a beginner having started playing in January. Loving it though! A question: Any particular reason you want a metal bohem flute? Though I'm not saying trad can't be played on these, it is more usual to play it on a 'simple system' wooden or plastic flute.

If you want a metal bohem flute I'm not qualified to advise (though others here will be).

Even after just 6 months, sometimes the sound that comes from my (wooden) flute sends a shiver down my spine and makes me go Ooooooh... Other times of course it makes me cringe, but hopefully those times will get less frequent as I continue to practice.

Good luck whatever you decide - it's quite a ride!

[jim stone]

Second this. The music you wish to play is typically
played on a conical wooden flute with six open holes
(six-open holes = simple system).

Strongly recommend you consider buying one of
those. Much more likely to get the sound you want.
It is much harder to get what you say you want
out of a metal boehm flute.

The Casey Burns folk flute is one widely recommended
for new players. You can find it by looking at
'Casey Burns flutes' on google.

Also there is a search function on the top of this page.
Search on these words and you'll find lots of discussion.

Also you might check out the 'irish flute store.'
google that.

Nice to have you.

[Gordon]

This advice may or may not be helpful, but I thought I'd throw in an opinion or two...
ITM can be played on any flute - or any instrument, for that matter - but some of the tone and sound most of us are after is certainly more easily realized on a conical (read wooden) flute. That said, ITM or other folk music, can be played reasonably well on a silver flute, and I agree that they're easier on your hands, and you don't have to worry about paying extra for keys.
My advice, then, is sort of the same for Boehms as it would be for recommending wooden flutes (only it's even easier, since there are more stores that sell them, with a variety of makes on hand, to boot): Go to a store that sells flutes, play them, and find the one you like best, that you can afford. What you may find, ironically, is that some of the less expensive flutes (plated silver bodies -- go for a silver head, no matter what) have a darker, deeper tone. Most of the "Irish" tone comes from your lip, anyway, and unless you have lots of money to kick around, I don't think you'll notice the difference that comes from a top model or make.
I play -- when I play a Boehm, which is not often anymore - an intermediate level Armstrong (silver head, low B foot), with open holes. The open holes help you do more Irish-y things, like slide on a note. Beyond that, it's an okay flute, and reasonably affordable - under 1K, US. Another thought is to look for a used one -- they're generally available, and the prices drop considerably among the non-antique ones. For better makes, you'd have to talk to other, more serious Boehm flute owners.
Best,
Gordon
Good luck

[CranberryDog]

David Swindler makes a very nice (by reports) WOODEN keyless Boehm flute. You might search this forum as there have been recents posts with photographs of the Swindler Boehm flute.

I have ordered one from David and should receive it this week. It is cocbolo with a rounded rectangle embrochure and a 6mm chimney, as well as off set holes that might help with your "bit of arthritis". Really looking forward to it. BTW, David is very nice to deal with and his flutes are reasonably priced. Good luck and welcome, Cyril.

[jim stone]

Just to say, there is no firm indication yet that the original
poster knows that Irish flutes exist. May think all
flutes are 'Boehm metal.' If so we're going to
confuse the heck out of this individual.

Huffer, do you know the difference? Just so we can
better help.

Let me say also that many of us are playing wooden flutes
even though we suffer from some degree of arthritis,
and the Casey Burns flutes are famous for being
easy to finger. He makes a 'small hands' flute
that's especially easy in that respect, probably less
demanding than a Boehm.

Gordon, I know playing ITM on a metal Boehm is possible.

But is it practical? Sincere question. There's a nice
Boehm for sale around the corner from me as I write,
with a silver head and silver plated body, French open holes, on
which I sound very good (wooden flute chops, yeah!).

But it sounds nothing like a wooden flute. I tried sliding
on the open holes (no problem covering them, again thanks
to simple system practice), but I can't slide very well.
Maybe with practice. Above all it has a silvery bright
metal sound, and though it has depth, it's
nothing like a wooden flute. The sound of a wooden
flute is a lot more interesting.

Also ornamenting on these things sound very
clickety indeed. The keys seem to be a positive
nuisance on rolls.

If you're playing ITM, is there a point to owning one of these?
It's tempting. Great volume and it sounds pretty good.
By the way it's a used Gemeinhart for
550. I keep flirting with these.

[peeplj]

I agree that a simple system flute is an excellent choice for these musics.

However, to do my best to answer the original question:

If you want a good Boehm system flute, made by a flutemaker who is used to working with players who have arthritis or other hand problems, you need to check out John Lunn's flutes:

http://www.lunnflutes.com/lunnflutes/

However, like any fine Boehm-system flute, they are expensive.

But if you want Boehm system and you need a flute that's easy on the hands, these have a stellar reputation.

--James

[Cass]

Hi everyone. I'm looking to buy a bohem metal flute to play Irish, English country dance and contra dance tunes.

If you're after a bohem metal flute, don't go for the ultra cheap new ones on Ebay....if anything goes wrong with it, your flute repairer won't be able to fix it, won't want to fix it, or won't think it's worth fixing.
Yamaha's are good, and are easily available. A good one which is commonly recommended to students, is the YFL 211 s. You could easily pick up one of these secondhand...this has closed holes.
The YFL 271 has open holes.

Cass.

ps. What ever you decide to get, I'd go for one with "off-set G", rather than "in line G". Easier on the hands...not as far to stretch the fingers.

[sbhikes]

My Casey Burns Folk Flute is heavier than my silver flute. And I seem to get more pain holding it than I do holding my silver one. Just for the weight it might not be the best choice for someone with arthritis.

I managed to find a used Gemeinhardt conservatory flute for $45 for sale locally with craigslist. Put 75 bucks in to get it playable again. It's seems like a really nice flute to me, although I guess most people don't like that brand and think the intonation is poor.

For Irish music the key system is a bit clackity and cumbersome, lacking the nimbleness you need for Irish music (of course, what would I know about nimbleness playing as slowly as I do.) But it sounds nice, is easier to find a teacher for, and feels easier on the hands and wrists.

[JS]

Just an aside to the discussion. Peter Barnes' terrific collection of English Country Dance music has tons of tunes in flat keys, so perhaps a keyless D flute wouldn't be the best solution for this music?

[peeplj]

I just found out that John Lunn is no longer taking orders for new flutes.

Sorry for having inadvertently introduced a red herring into the discussion.

--James

[Denny]

The discussion started with a red herring...
We do not have enough information to make a valid recommendation.

...and we's a bit slanted toward the older technology.

[chas]

Just an aside to the discussion. Peter Barnes' terrific collection of English Country Dance music has tons of tunes in flat keys, so perhaps a keyless D flute wouldn't be the best solution for this music?

I was going to say the same thing, although citing the Playford tunes. They can be played on a one-key that crossfingers well, but given what the original poster said, it certainly seems to me that a Boehm flute would work better.

[Gordon]

Let me say also that many of us are playing wooden flutes
even though we suffer from some degree of arthritis,
and the Casey Burns flutes are famous for being
easy to finger. He makes a 'small hands' flute
that's especially easy in that respect, probably less
demanding than a Boehm.

Gordon, I know playing ITM on a metal Boehm is possible.

But is it practical? Sincere question. There's a nice
Boehm for sale around the corner from me as I write,
with a silver head and silver plated body, French open holes, on
which I sound very good (wooden flute chops, yeah!).

But it sounds nothing like a wooden flute. I tried sliding
on the open holes (no problem covering them, again thanks
to simple system practice), but I can't slide very well.
Maybe with practice. Above all it has a silvery bright
metal sound, and though it has depth, it's
nothing like a wooden flute. The sound of a wooden
flute is a lot more interesting.

Also ornamenting on these things sound very
clickety indeed. The keys seem to be a positive
nuisance on rolls.

If you're playing ITM, is there a point to owning one of these?
It's tempting. Great volume and it sounds pretty good.
By the way it's a used Gemeinhart for
550. I keep flirting with these.

I'm a firm player of wooden flute for ITM, Jim, but I vehemently disagree with your position - I've seen it for years on this forum, and it is mostly, if not all, e-ban legend.

Firstly, as I'd said, most tone comes from you, your lips -- listen to any ITM player on a Boehm (Joannie, to name the most obvious), and the tone is not all that different at all. Yes, the cylindrical sound is a bit different, but not enough to make a grand case about it. The material, metal, is something, but a wooden Boehm sounds more like a metal flute than a wooden one, and a wooden Rudall playing classical music sounds less "Irish" than an ITM player does on a Boehm.. and so on.

The embouchure on a Boehm, is -- if anything -- a bit too easy for most ITM players; we like to push. So, if anything, the skill is not in getting a good sound, but in holding back on volume and pressure. Again, the key here is in the upper lip, for tone, whereas many wooden flutes need to be blasted just to get a good volume, let alone tone. For ITM players, the switch back may be hard, but for newbies, the Boehm is clearly the "easier" choice. Whether that's a good thing (and, in my mind, it isn't, necessarily) is a debate for another thread.

Regarding the typewriter-like clacking of a Boehm, this depends on, among other factors, how good your Boehm is, and what kind of shape your flute(s) are in. My German fully-keyed antique conical, for eg., clacks like hell -- far louder than my silver flute!

Lastly (for now ), the point has been made by another here (forgot whom - sorry!) that other forms of folk, contra dances, etc., and not necessarily played in the D, G, Em keys. Anything that requires a good Eb, or Bb, F maj, etc., will sit more easily on a Boehm. And -- if playing along with other instruments -- the volume and clarity of a silver flute helps (in addition to hiding the slightly different tonal characteristics of a wooden flute).

For the record, I spend most of my flute-playing time on a good blackwood Pratten hybrid myself, playing Irish tunes the way Hammy intended, and I am in no way advocating using a Boehm for ITM in its stead. However, if that is the beast of one's choice, there are innumerable advantages to them -- Boehms did not eclipse conicals, historically speaking, by simply having a better advertising campaign than Rudall, et al, did. They are, in fact, easier to blow, surer of pitch and volume, better in the upper octave(s), and -- since this was the original poster's question - easier on the hands.

That's, of course, if you like that sort of thing...

Best, Gordon

[Cork]

...I have a bit of arthritis...

That could be an issue, frankly.

Long story short, I have not yet heard it claimed that playing a flute could lead to any cure of arthritis. Now, I don't mean to be mean, here, but it seems that most musical instruments call for one's hands to be put to work, and the flute is a good example of that. In turn, such work perhaps could inflame an existing arthritic condition. Again, I say this not out of malice, but with a concern for your future good health.