Keeping the right hand little finger down?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:40 am

jemtheflute wrote:(I do irrationally detest that American term "pinkie"! In Britain, "pinkies" are usually a baby's toes!!!)

Well, as a Yank, I'm less than comfortable with Britishisms like "knock me up in the morning", but what're ya gonna do?

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:15 am

I rather like the mornings

Does that make me British

or Britishish

LoLo · Post by **LoLo** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:36 am

Nanohedron wrote:Well, as a Yank, I'm less than comfortable with Britishisms like "knock me up in the morning", but what're ya gonna do?

How about another war?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:37 am

LoLo wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:Well, as a Yank, I'm less than comfortable with Britishisms like "knock me up in the morning", but what're ya gonna do?
How about another war?

Over what???

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:28 pm

donno, what ya got?

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:26 am

That clip of Matt Molloy illustrates my point exactly. Note that he is keeping his little finger down for all notes, including D. I specifically said that the mark of a Boehm player is keeping the little finger down for all notes except for D, including E. Likewise, The Mark Of Somebody Who Is Really A Recorder Player is lifting the upper thumb whenever middle D is played on an Irish whistle lacking a thumbhole.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:44 am

pancelticpiper wrote:That clip of Matt Molloy illustrates my point exactly. Note that he is keeping his little finger down for all notes, including D. I specifically said that the mark of a Boehm player is keeping the little finger down for all notes except for D, including E. Likewise, The Mark Of Somebody Who Is Really A Recorder Player is lifting the upper thumb whenever middle D is played on an Irish whistle lacking a thumbhole.

The T thumb motion you mention could equally be Boehm flute related rather than recorder - the configuration of the L thumb B/Bb keys and the inclusion of the thumb at No.2 in a fingers-on/off in order scale (D or C major or chromatic) on Boehm flute leads to this habit. So what?

Just because we retain at worst harmless, at best distinctly advantageous habits from things we've done earlier doesn't disqualify us from being regarded as "proper" ITM whistlers or flute players! I'll say it again for pancelticpiper's benefit: on simple system flute, venting the Eb key in exactly the same way as on Boehm flute is basic technique as envisioned by the C19th makers/players of the instruments. The fact that many modern ITM players, however revered and virtuosic, don't tend to do it, doesn't mean that it is somehow "wrong" or "untraditional", and as I said before, there are distinct advantages to using the Eb key "correctly" that do not in any way impinge on or make harder or falsify "traditional" ITM style playing. If you acquire the Eb habit from the start of your training on the flute, so much the better. If it carries over into a harmless redundancy on the whistle, shoot me please! I don't think there are any "rules" against swapping instruments or musical styles, or being proficient in/on several!

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:44 am

I wrote:

panceltic piper wrote:

"On Irish flute at least, seeing someone always having their pinkie down except for D is The Mark Of Someone Who Is Really A Boehm Player."

Yeah, like this guy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHcDY76a_eY

obviously a boehm-playing poser trying to have a go at the wooden flute.

pancelticpiper wrote:

That clip of Matt Molloy illustrates my point exactly. Note that he is keeping his little finger down for all notes, including D. I specifically said that the mark of a Boehm player is keeping the little finger down for all notes except for D, including E. Likewise, The Mark Of Somebody Who Is Really A Recorder Player is lifting the upper thumb whenever middle D is played on an Irish whistle lacking a thumbhole.

Sorry. I misread your initial post. I really have to start reading these things more carefully before posting cheeky replies!

cheers,

SteveB

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:13 pm

jemtheflute wrote:(I do irrationally detest that American term "pinkie"! In Britain, "pinkies" are usually a baby's toes!!!)

Nothing particularly American about the word 'pinkie'.
Pinkie (or 'pinky') was always the term for the small finger in Scotland.

C.

MaryC · Post by **MaryC** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:09 pm

mutepointe wrote:i find sticking my pinky out is a great way to get invitations to teas. folks know i will have wonderful manners when i can play a set and never once lower my pinky.

Be careful though: in some places the way you point your pinkie while drinking tea can be taken as an indicator of sexual orientation. You might way to find out what message you might be giving out before sticking it in either direction!

Tia · Post by **Tia** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:47 pm

while reading all these posts i picked up my whistle to see what I do, I keep my pinkie, little finger for u british people

, up, its feels weird with it down, but whatever suits you, as so many before me have said it really doesnt matter

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:19 pm

It is not a sin to keep your pinkie raised all the time or some of the time,
to use it for stability or for balance or for a prissy visual effect.

Pan is pre-judaic and there is no tablet of 10 commandments for whistlers. There is a thing we can call fundamentals of technique but those fundamentals are amenable to organic variations. By that I mean natural (and often, intuitive) adjustments due to hand type, instrument feel, demands of phrasing etc.

Music making is not black and white.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:59 pm

pancelticpiper wrote:Likewise, The Mark Of Somebody Who Is Really A Recorder Player is lifting the upper thumb whenever middle D is played on an Irish whistle lacking a thumbhole.

Is this obversation something you've actually seen in students and others, or just a reasonable inference?

Personally, as a long time player of that other evil fipple flute, I've never felt the slightest urge to lift the top thumb on whistle. The recorder fingerings involved are just too different (and would entail C# as well as D, and sometimes E). And the register break occurs at a different point. On a whistle with a C thumb hole, the thumb-up fingering involved is different yet again.

I find similar non-interference from recorder cross fingerings. Maybe it's from playing multiple winds that I'm used to compartmentalizing. But it seems to me that my whistle fingering habits are conditioned by the whistle itself. I could say the same about guitar, where classical habits of fingering and position go out the window when I'm playing Irish backup.

My experience may not be typical. But I do know at least two other recorder players turned whistlers whose thumbs are equally immobile.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:07 pm

MTGuru wrote:.....Personally, as a long time player of that other evil fipple flute, ........

What exactly is so evil about recorders?
Is it because, with its cross fingered full chromaticity, it is capable of giving a lot more devilish modes with an augmented 4th, than the only two that are easily available on a normal diatonic whistle (lydian and locrian)?

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:29 am

talasiga wrote:What exactly is so evil about recorders?
Is it because, with its cross fingered full chromaticity, it is capable of giving a lot more devilish modes with an augmented 4th, than the only two that are easily available on a normal diatonic whistle (lydian and locrian)?

Yes, that must be it. Vivat diabolus in musica!