More in the great water saga -- wonderful news!

chrisoff · Post by **chrisoff** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:22 pm

Oh and whenever you're speaking to customer service people on the phone always be very polite, respectful but firm. Never raise your voice or insult them, that way does not lead to managerial access.

Only once you have reached the higher levels may your patience fray, although I would still advice politeness and a level head. Always be willing to follow through a threat to change provider, otherwise it has no weight.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:26 pm

Well, they just called me back. They're not going to do anything about the bill. The most they offered was to send me a letter detailing how much water we've used over the past year, so we can be comfortable that they're justified in shafting us. Oh yeah..and they won't charge me a late fee for this one, since it was in dispute. Wow. I'm underwhelmed.

I never thought I'd say this, because I love this place, but right now I wish I lived anywhere but Mount Hermon.

I think I'm just going to go off and have a good cry now.

Redwolf

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:31 pm

chrisoff wrote:Oh and whenever you're speaking to customer service people on the phone always be very polite, respectful but firm. Never raise your voice or insult them, that way does not lead to managerial access.

Only once you have reached the higher levels may your patience fray, although I would still advice politeness and a level head. Always be willing to follow through a threat to change provider, otherwise it has no weight.

We don't really have all those levels here. This is a small private utility...it serves Mount Hermon Christian Conference Center and the private homes immediately around it, and is part of the Mount Hermon Association. There's the guy I spoke to and his boss...that's it. We have no option to choose another provider, and they know it...that's another thing that's frustrating. The wells belong to Mount Hermon, as do the meters and the pipes leading from the wells to the meters. There's no option to switch to a different water company in Felton or Santa Cruz, because Mount Hermon is technically private property.

Redwolf

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:18 am

Maybe you can use their letter as evidence against them in a small claims court or something?

Have you talked to someone at the Mount Hermon Association about it?

Or we could start a Chiffy Fundraiser to raise the difference between your usual bill and the shafting one. I'd be happy to donate!

Sliabh Luachra · Post by **Sliabh Luachra** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:54 am

Maybe you should look into digging a well, and just be done with them completely.

Mark

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:15 am

avanutria wrote:Maybe you can use their letter as evidence against them in a small claims court or something?

Have you talked to someone at the Mount Hermon Association about it?

Or we could start a Chiffy Fundraiser to raise the difference between your usual bill and the shafting one. I'd be happy to donate!

The billing office is the Mount Hermon Association, so there's not much help there, I'm afraid. It's the same office that takes payments for their camps and conferences.

Don't start a fundraiser. It's a nice thought, but those should be reserved for things like medical emergencies, I think. This is painful and infuriating, but it won't break us...I've got some money I got for my birthday and a reimbursement from my newsletter work that will cover the difference. No Deireadh Seachtaine Gaeltachta in San Francisco for me this September, unfortunately, but as I tell my daughter, that's just how life goes sometimes.

Wish I could dig a well, Mark, but our property is just exactly big enough for our house and our septic system. Typical California lot...I can literally reach out from my kitchen and touch my next-door-neighbor's deck. It sure would be nice to be independent from utilities, though! My husband wants solar panels someday for that very reason (though I have to say that, between PG&E and the water department, I'd rather deal with PG&E!)

Redwolf

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:39 am

I imagine you must feel rather betrayed, Audrey.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:49 am

Nanohedron wrote:I imagine you must feel rather betrayed, Audrey.

Yep...that word pretty much sums it up.

Redwolf

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:02 am

i still would insist on an adjustment. Yes, water was spilled, but it's an abstraction. It didn't come out of someone's pocket, fergawdsake. It came out of the ground. Nobody really lost anything, it's just the social-economic contract to tax a natural resource.

You are being asked to maintain the concept of being billed for what you use, in order to pay for the infrastructure to deliver said product. You didn't use it, and it was barely delivered.

It's ridiculous. And closed-minded in the extreme on their part.

I would send them a check for your average use for that month.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:13 pm

You might include a note stating that the amount you owe is in dispute, and you're paying the amount you agree you owe. The remaining, disputed amount is subject to negotiation.

That way, you'll have recorded the fact that you don't agree with the bill, in case it comes up later with a collection agency or credit bureau. I believe you should also write on the memo line of the check that the amount you owe is in dispute. A photographic record of the check will be archived somewhere even if your note gets lost in the shuffle.

Best wishes,
Jerry

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:09 pm

I think I'd be inclined to pay it and mark it under dispute. Then follow up by being a real pain if nothing else to the water people. I'd not just go away quietly. I like the idea of taking it further up the power structure and even going public. In addition to a refund, I'd demand interest.

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:45 pm

retracted

alurker · Post by **alurker** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:53 pm

The Weekenders wrote:i still would insist on an adjustment. Yes, water was spilled, but it's an abstraction. It didn't come out of someone's pocket, fergawdsake. It came out of the ground. Nobody really lost anything, it's just the social-economic contract to tax a natural resource.

Not direct advice for you Redwolf but generally you don't want to try to use raw logic when dealing with the good people in customer service. What it comes down to in simple terms is whether it causes the person you are currently speaking to more pain/inconvenience/time/hassle to help you than it would if they do not. Bear in mind that most conversations are recorded so their hands are tied in terms of telling you to go to hell. One unrelenting customer can cause a customer service rep a lot of pain. You gotta choose your battles carefully though because it takes time, patience and perseverence. Use lots of different communication media (email, letter, phone, fax). It helps if you consider it to be more a battle of wits than a conflict. It also helps if they think that you are a bit of a looney tune who will never, ever, ever give up.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Redwolf wrote:This is a small private utility...it serves Mount Hermon Christian Conference Center and the private homes immediately around it, and is part of the Mount Hermon Association. There's the guy I spoke to and his boss...that's it.

alurker · Post by **alurker** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:18 pm

alurker wrote:Not direct advice for you Redwolf but .....