Cryo-Whistles

[goesto11]

I saw a special a few years back on companies that would cryogenically freeze things (slowly) and then (slwoly) bring them back to ambient tempertaure. They would then test the properties of the thing frozen. Apparently bringing the objects to near absolute zero (however cold liquid nitrogen is) aligned the molecules more precisely.

They did this to a trombone, and the slide was much smoother. They also did it to a razor and it lasted three times longer than a regular razor.

I was wondering what would happen to an all-metal whistle if this was done to it. Thoughts?

John Mac

[Martin Milner]

I think the whistle would last three times longer too.

[garycrosby]

I think your lips would freeze to it.

[OutOfBreath]

Some brass players are having their instruments cryogenically frozen. Supposedly, the freezing relieves stresses in the metal and the resulting horns are supposed to sound better.

Not having any personal experience with this I can't testify to its effectiveness, but I do have enough to know that we musicians are a wierd lot, often affected by "golden ear syndrome."

Perhaps because my father was from Missouri, I tend not to believe even my <b>own</b> ears unless I can prove something with a double-blind test.

There are thousands of guitarists who claim they can hear the difference between normal and oxygen free copper cords -- but I don't know of a single one who has been able to prove it in a double-blind test!

John

[Dewhistle]

Next time someone asks about making your own whistles, one of you whistle-makers has just got to add this to the process.

[serpent]

I relieve stress in my whistles by pouring good Irish single-malt through them prior to shipment.
Bill Whedon

[chas]

On 2002-10-23 12:54, OutOfBreath wrote:
Some brass players are having their instruments cryogenically frozen. Supposedly, the freezing relieves stresses in the metal and the resulting horns are supposed to sound better.

There are thousands of guitarists who claim they can hear the difference between normal and oxygen free copper cords -- but I don't know of a single one who has been able to prove it in a double-blind test!

Both of these remarks are interesting. The normal way to stress-relieve something is to HEAT it. It takes energy to relieve the stresses, and there's less energy at lower temps. I'm not doubting it does something, just don't understand it.

And, oxygen-free copper is extremely soft -- I would be surprised if it would handle the tension in a guitar string. Is it just wound around a steel or brass/bronze core? I could always tell the difference between a nickel-wound and bronze-wound string; I wouldn't be surprised if OFHC copper is even warmer.

Charlie

[AaronMalcomb]

So, in theory you could cryo-freeze a Generation whistle and when brought to ambient temperature you might actually be able to get good tone out of it (providing that the process doesn't damage the plastic head)? I have a feeling that a Cryo-Generation whistle would cost more than a Cillian O'Briain improved whistle.
Cheers,
Aaron

[amar]

Och Bill! Ah'm sure that was a wee typo o' yers! It's nay the irish whiskey that warms oor herts, bu the scottish wee single malt drams! Och aye!

[goesto11]

I found a website of a company, Onecryo, that will do this for you. Here's a link http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/otherapp-music.htm and here's a portion of what their site says:

Brass Musical Instruments and Cryogenic Tempering
Cryogenics : Make Your Music Come To Life!




Cryogenic Tempering has been hailed as the single greatest advancement for brass musical instruments in the past 50 years.
By treating the brass musical instruments at ultra cold temperatures, inherent stresses within the structure of the brass are released. This allows your instrument to play cleaner and perform the way it was designed.

Brass instruments respond exceptionally well to the cryogenic process, providing a more pleasant, rounder resonant tone.
Guitar, Piano and Violin strings sound better, stay in tone longer, and last longer.
Valves feel better and smoother.
Horns have a smoother, rounder sound and are freer blowing with improved pitch centering.

John Mac

[msheldon]

On 2002-10-23 12:54, OutOfBreath wrote:
Some brass players are having their instruments cryogenically frozen. Supposedly, the freezing relieves stresses in the metal and the resulting horns are supposed to sound better.

A number of outdoorsmen also have knifes and gun barrels treated this way. A few tests from high-end manufacturers, however, have shown no measurable stress relief, and only marginal improvement in wear resistance.

From Shilen, a world class rifle barrel maker:

"If you have heard that the cryogenic treatment stress relieves steel, this is false. We have measured the residual stress in 4140 and 416 steel with a process called x-ray diffraction. After much R&D, we have not been able to measure any changes in molecular stress after cryo treatment. For this reason we do not endorse the cryogenic process, but we can safely say that it is not detrimental to the barrel either."

[tin tin]

As I mentioned in the tech talk 2 post, some flute companies (Powell comes to mind) offer cryogenic freezing for their headjoints, which supposedly results in an improvement in sound.
Micah

[garycrosby]

I once dated a girl who claimed that if she froze a brand new pair of nylons (in a household deep freeze) before she first wore them they would last "three times longer" than if she wore them straight out of the package.

Also, liquid nitrogen is nowhere near as cold as absolute zero:
Liquid Nitrogen = 77K or -196°C
Absolute Zero = 0K or -263°C

[markv]

Well... I've got access to a large amount of liquid nitrogen and -80 deg Celsius freezers... Who wants to send me their Overton? Maybe I could try my Cheiftan high E, certainly can't hurt it. Just have to knock the dirt out from using it as a tent stake. Actually it's not that bad. Wanna trade anyone?

Mark V.

[The Weekenders]

wonder what happens to the delrin in the Burke fipple?