This is seriously weird

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:59 pm

I got my water bill, and it was for more than $700...more than three times the normal rate! I called the water department here in our development, and they agreed that it must be a mistake. They sent someone out to re-read the meter, and not only was it accurate, but it was spinning when they read it (and no one was home), which means there must be a huge leak somewhere. The trouble is, I have no idea where. There's no water coming up anywhere in the house or yard, or even in the street between the yard and the meter. No sign of water damage anywhere in the house or garage. We have no leaky toilets or faucets. The water heater is in good shape. And heck...we're downright parsimonious with water (typical Californians!). We haven't even had an earthquake lately. I'm a bit freaked, because I don't even know where to look or who to call...and I sure can't afford to be spending $700 every month for water! I can't believe we can have a massive leak somewhere...something that puts our usage up to three times our norm...and not have any indication beyond an astronomically high water bill.

Anybody have any idea how to tackle something like this? If I knew for sure there was a leak, and where it was, I'd know who to call, but who do you call when you know you're losing water somewhere, but you have no idea where?

Redwolf

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:29 am

You must have a main stopcock. Turn it off. See how the water-meter reacts. If it stops, then you know the leak is beyond the stop-cock. If the meter continues to move, then you know it is between the meter and the stopcock.
Unfortunately that means digging up a lot of pipework. Since it's beyond the water-meter, that can mean that the Water Company does not regard it as their responsibility. But they should be able to recommend a contractor that does this kind of thing, or at very least have an approved list.

"Call a plumber", seems the obvious thing...

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:39 am

Your neighbours have asked me to pass along their gratitude, and generously offer the use of their pool to both you and your family.

djm

izzarina · Post by **izzarina** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:48 am

IB's advice seems like a good start, Red. You should have a main shut off valve for the whole house. I'd shut that off first, and see if the thing is still going. At least then you'll have an idea whether it's in the house, or outside of it. I would also ask the water company what exactly is *your* responsibility..in other words, where does the part that you have to pay for end. I would assume that there is a portion between the meter and the house that might not be your responsibility, but I could be wrong there.

Wow...I really hope you can figure this out quickly. Keeping my fingers crossed that you do!

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:56 am

Might be a pipe underground. Is any patch of grass doing
particularly well? Do you have a slab house? It might be under
the concrete slab. I hope not, that's an expensive fix. Man, that
really sucks, Red.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:06 am

Goodness, what a strange thing. I'd be quite alarmed too. I'm sure a plumber can help you figure out what is going on. They know about the whole set-up. It seems like the water company should have offered some advice to you, but maybe the meter reader doesn't know about other things. Let us know what you find out and good luck.

rhulsey · Post by **rhulsey** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:51 am

years ago, my folks got a huge water bill. when they called the city out to have a look - all they said was "well, look at how green your lawn is". then my folks pointed out that they watered the yard with well water. Oh, the joys of a small town!

Seriously - my neighbor just went through this whole thing. Her meter said she has used a bazillion gallons in a month - I'm not sure what the outcome was, but this is a good time to inquire.

Keep in mind that the water meter, though a fairly simple device, is mechanical and is subject to malfunction...

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:12 am

rhulsey wrote:
Keep in mind that the water meter, though a fairly simple device, is mechanical and is subject to malfunction...

True. But your water company will not work on that assumption. They will want you to provide the kind of proof (that the meter is faulty) that would make an ordinary citizen leap three feet in the air.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:28 am

Well, the one good thing about this is we aren't with a city utility or a major water company. We live in a Christian conference center that has its own wells and water system, and most of the people who work here are my neighbors as well. So we're dealing with human beings instead of a bureaucracy, which is something of a comfort...generally I can trust the PTB down at the conference center to do the right thing, and if any of this is their responsibility, I know they'll hold up their end.

I actually called them about it last week, when I got the bill, and they sent someone up to recheck the meter and make sure it's operating properly. That's why I was kind of wigged out last night...I came home and got the call that everything seemed to be working fine at the street end. We went through the entire house looking for leaks (my husband even went under the house to the black widow haven to see if any of the pipes down there seemed to be leaking), and everything is tight as a drum at this end. No running or leaking toilets, no dripping faucets, no sign of water damage, dampness, or drippy pipes. The guy in the office said the meter was spinning when they checked it, which was at a time when I wasn't home, and had no water-using appliances running, so there has to be some kind of a leak somewhere.

We don't have a lawn (our front yard is bark chipped and our "back yard," if you can call it a yard (it's actually a pretty steep hill), has been left in a natural state (we live in a redwood forest, so what that means is lots of St. John's Wort, poison oak, manzanita and a couple of big trees). In fact, most of the area under our front yard is taken up with our waste treatment system (which is barely five-years-old, state-of-the-art, and regularly maintained, so I doubt that's the problem...but I may call the people we have a maintenance contract with, just to check). I have checked for any water coming up in the yard (a good thing to do from time to time anyway, when you have a septic system), or signs of erosion, dampness on the retaining wall, or sinking in the soil, but can't find a thing.

I've left a message for the fellow who is in charge of the grounds here (and the fellow in the accounting office said he would speak with him if he saw him as well), to ask how we should proceed, and if he can recommend anyone to come take a look. The one hope I have is that the guy in accounting said that there were several other families here who had unusually high water bills this month as well, so it's possible that the problem is in the water delivery system...that's another thing the director of grounds will be checking into. Aside from the astronomically high bills, none of us wants to see water being wasted, especially with fire season upon us.

I'm not sure if our house would be considered a concrete slab house or not. It's a A-frame built into the side of a hill, and part of the house sits on top of the garage (which is on a concrete slab) and part of it rests on a concrete foundation with bare dirt underneath it (that's the part we call the "black widow haven").

Anyway, thanks for the advice (and the commiseration!). I'll keep you posted on developments.

Redwolf

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:45 am

Redwolf wrote:
The one hope I have is that the guy in accounting said that there were several other families here who had unusually high water bills this month as well, so it's possible that the problem is in the water delivery system...that's another thing the director of grounds will be checking into.

This is my guess, as well. I would follow up with this idea.

Also, if water is moving in a pipe, it is often possile to detect the movement by the sound that it makes. Using a stick between the pipe and the bone near your ear, you can hear the sound of moving water. This will allow you to troubleshoot the leak, if there is one.

missy · Post by **missy** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:35 pm

around here, anything coming INTO the meter is the water company's responsibility, anything coming OUT of the meter is the homeowners. In my old house the meter was in the basement (thankfully a non finished one) and I walked downstairs once to find a mini-Niagra falls squirting out of the meter. It was coming out of the pipe BEFORE it got to the meter, so it was the water company's to fix.

When my parents got water into their house (growing up we used a cistern) the meters were put out by the road and the homeowner was responsible for getting the pipe the rest of the way into the house. Since yours truly was the smallest adult at the time, I got to unwind copper pipe in 4 feet deep (that's frost line around here) ditches for 15 houses. Fun, fun.

Hope you get an answer soon, and it doesn't involve extensive work to fix!

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:45 pm

They did they help you out when you were done didn't they?

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:51 pm

missy wrote:Since yours truly was the smallest adult at the time

Did someone shrink?

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Fri May 25, 2007 3:20 pm

Redwolf, any oddball appliances you might not have thought of that take a water feed, such as a humidifier as part of a central heating furnace?

I presume any items such as water heaters, dishwashers, refrigerator ice makers, etc. have already passed.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience.

Kevin Krell

Post by **Dale** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:19 pm

I wonder if I have a leak in my Verizon Wireless account this month that would account for a $574 bill. Oh, yes, that would be my daughters.