Singer/Songwriters

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:03 pm

The " best vocal " threads made me start thinking of the really great singer/songwriters. The ones who's tunes strike a chord deep within- not just good songs, but great songs done best by their creators- not just good popular tunes, there are plenty who would fit that bill, but tunes that speak truth.....

Bob Dylan and Richard Thompson immediately come to mind....

Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son?
Who did you meet, my darling young one?
I met a young child beside a dead pony,
I met a white man who walked a black dog,
I met a young woman whose body was burning,
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow,
I met one man who was wounded in love,
I met another man who was wounded with hatred,
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

from Dylan's Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall

Did your dreams die young, were they too hard won
Did you reach too high and fall
And there is no rest for the ones God blessed
And he blessed you best of all

from RT's King of Bohemia

anyone who can come up with such as this..... I am in awe......

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:41 pm

I think a lot of people in the "great vocalists" threads are not getting the distinction--that of a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter. A lot of people listed I think are great singer-songewriters, but not particularly great vocalists. You can be one without being the other, of course, and you can be both at the same time.

One of my favorite singer-songwriters is Natalie Merchant. Here is her song "Wonder:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vx3ndjsalw "I must be one of the wonders of God's own Creation...I'm a challenge, to your balance..."

Another favorite singer-songwriter of mine is Suzanne Vega. Here is her song "Luka," which is about child abuse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDBGia0CNuo

And of course I must mention Sinéad O'Connor, who is both a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter, in my humble opinion. She is best known for singing a cover (Nothing Compares 2 U), but her own songwriting can be absolutely pristine.

missy · Post by **missy** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:18 am

besides being a fantastically nice lady, one of my favorite song writers is Jean Ritchie. Many, many artists have done a cover of her "The L&N Don't Stop Here Anymore", but for me, the song that shows her poetry best is "Black Waters":

Black Waters
(Jean Ritchie)

I come from the mountains, Kentucky's my home
Where the wild deer and black bear so lately did roam
By the cool rushing waterfall the wildflowers dream
And through every green valley, there runs a clear stream
Now there's scenes of destruction on every hand
And only black waters run down through my land
Sad scenes of destruction on every hand
Black waters, black waters, run down through my land

Well, the quail, she's a pretty bird and she sings a sweet tongue
In the roots of tall timber she nests with her young
The the hillside explodes with the dynamites roar
And the voice of the small bird is heard there no more
And the mountain comes a sliding so awful and grand
And the flooding black waters rise over my land

In the coming of springtime we planted our corn
In the ending of springtime we buried our son
In the summer come a nice man saying everything's fine
My employer just requires a way to his mine
Then they tore down my mountain and covered my corn
Now the grave on the hillside 's a mile deeper down
And the man stands a talking with his hat in his hand
While the poison black waters rise over my land

Well I ain't got no money, not much of a home
I own my own land, but my land's not my own
But, if I had ten million, somewheres thereabout
Well, I'd buy Perry county and throw them all out
And just sit down on the banks with my bait and my can
And watch the clear waters run down through my land

Well, wouldn't that be just like the old promised land?
Black waters, black waters no more in my land
Black waters, black waters no more in my land

rebl_rn · Post by **rebl_rn** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:06 am

My all time favorite singer/songwriter is Rich Mullins. He was a contemporary Christian artist - his most famous song is probably "Awesome God" but all of his songs are incredible lyrically. One of his most beautiful, IMHO, is the song "We Are Not As Strong As We Think We Are":

Well, it took the hand of God Almighty
To part the waters of the sea
But it only took one little lie
To separate you and me
Oh, we are not as strong as we think we are

And they say that one day Joshua
Made the sun stand still in the sky
But I can't even keep these thoughts
Of you from passing by
Oh, we are not as strong as we think we are

CHORUS
We are frail
We are fearfully and wonderfully made
Forged in the fires of human passion
Choking on the fumes of selfish rage
And with these our hells and our heavens
So few inches apart
We must be awfully small
And not as strong as we think we are

And the Master said their faith was
Gonna make them mountains move
But me, I tremble like a hill on a fault line
Just at the thought of how I lost you
Oh, we are not as strong as we think we are

CHORUS

And if you make me laugh well I know
I could make you like me
Cause when I laugh I can be a lot of fun
But we can't do that I know that it is frightening
What I don't know is why we can't hold on
We can't hold on

CHORUS

When you love you walk on the water
Just don't stumble on the waves
We all want to go there somethin' awful
But to stand there it takes some grace
'Cause oh, we are not as strong
As we think we are

izzarina · Post by **izzarina** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:43 am

Cranberry wrote:I think a lot of people in the "great vocalists" threads are not getting the distinction--that of a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter. A lot of people listed I think are great singer-songewriters, but not particularly great vocalists. You can be one without being the other, of course, and you can be both at the same time.

I'm not trying to be snarky but I don't understand what you mean here (and I mean that sincerely...I didn't on the other thread either). A great vocalist is in the "ear" of the "hearer" . I know many people who wouldn't be fond of Janis Joplin's voice at all, but I for one think she's amazing. Unless I missed something on that thread that was implying that just because someone writes well, they are automatically a great vocalist? Just trying to understand your point here, Cranberry

And of course I must mention Sinéad O'Connor, who is both a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter, in my humble opinion. She is best known for singing a cover (Nothing Compares 2 U), but her own songwriting can be absolutely pristine.

Didn't Prince actually write that one for her?

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:15 am

I'm quite fond of Richard Shindell
Here's his song about INS tactics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjQ_dfIeopY

I also like Jason Mraz, though he's pop-ier than the traditional
singer-songwriter. He does neat stuff with rhythms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jIRO2IR0iM

BillChin · Post by **BillChin** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:12 am

izzarina wrote:
Cranberry wrote:I think a lot of people in the "great vocalists" threads are not getting the distinction--that of a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter. A lot of people listed I think are great singer-songewriters, but not particularly great vocalists. You can be one without being the other, of course, and you can be both at the same time.
I'm not trying to be snarky but I don't understand what you mean here (and I mean that sincerely...I didn't on the other thread either). A great vocalist is in the "ear" of the "hearer" . I know many people who wouldn't be fond of Janis Joplin's voice at all, but I for one think she's amazing. Unless I missed something on that thread that was implying that just because someone writes well, they are automatically a great vocalist? Just trying to understand your point here, Cranberry

And of course I must mention Sinéad O'Connor, who is both a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter, in my humble opinion. She is best known for singing a cover (Nothing Compares 2 U), but her own songwriting can be absolutely pristine.
Didn't Prince actually write that one for her?

There are some objective criteria for singing, such as ability to sing in pitch, range of pitch, power and projection, volume and control. The ability to sing live, especially acapella and still hold an audience is a more subjective criteria, but a good one. A lot of names listed on the other threads would do poorly in such a test. They may be good songwriters, and entertainers, but they are not top vocalists.

If someone with a good ear was scoring on a scale of 1 to 10 on the objective measures of pitch, range, volume, control, many of the names mentioned would be middle of the pack. A top vocalist would rate top scores in all of these. The quality of tone is more subjective, but after being able to sing in key, and range, it is what most folks focus on. A lot of folks probably have an average ear and can't tell if someone is on key unless they are way off. However, range, projection, and control usually do exhibit themselves if the person has it in them.

The power in their music for the middle of the pack folks is often in their instrument, band, arrangement or editing, or the beauty or edge to the lyrics. Nothing wrong with that, but it is one reason for a separate thread.

Back to the point of the thread, Barry Gibb of the BeeGees has had an exceptional career as a songwriter, after acheiving fame with his brothers in the disco era with "Staying Alive." Writing upbeat dance lyrics is perhaps the most difficult task for many songwriters, so I think this deserves special mention. Gibb has his share of ballads and slow songs as well, so makes for a well rounded all-star songwriter.

Stayin Alive from the movie Saturday Night Fever

Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk,
Im a womans man: no time to talk.
Music loud and women warm, Ive been kicked around
Since I was born.
And now its all right. its ok.
And you may look the other way.
We can try to understand
The new york times effect on man.

Whether youre a brother or whether youre a mother,
Youre stayin alive, stayin alive.
Feel the city breakin and everybody shakin,
And were stayin alive, stayin alive.
Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin alive, stayin alive.
Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin alive.

Well now, I get low and I get high,
And if I cant get either, I really try.
Got the wings of heaven on my shoes.
Im a dancin man and I just cant lose.
You know its all right. its ok.
Ill live to see another day.
We can try to understand
The new york times effect on man.

izzarina · Post by **izzarina** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:32 am

BillChin wrote:There are some objective criteria for singing, such as ability to sing in pitch, range of pitch, power and projection, volume and control....

Thank you Bill...I did actually know this, I was just unclear as to what Cranberry meant. It probably should have been asked in a pm rather than in this thread...sorry about that.

jsluder · Post by **jsluder** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:42 am

My favorite singer/songwriter is John Denver. Being the outdoorsy type myself, I really like the way he incorporated the natural world into his songs.

From "Annie's Song":

You fill up my senses
like a night in the forest
like the mountains in springtime,
like a walk in the rain
like a storm in the desert,
like a sleepy blue ocean
you fill up my senses,
come fill me again.

From "I Want To Live":

Have you gazed out on the ocean
seen the breaching of a whale?
Have you watched the dolphins frolic in the foam?
Have you heard the song the humpback hears
five hundred miles away
Telling tales of ancient history
of passages and home

From "Rocky Mountain High":

Now he walks in quiet solitude the forest and the streams
seeking grace in ev'ry step he takes.
His sight has turned in side himself to try and understand
the serenity of a clear blue mountain lake.

From "Whalebones and Crosses":

Whalebones and crosses
Stand against the Arctic sky.
The wind blows through the graveyard,
Where our fallen fathers lie.
Eternal snow that covers them.
The shadows of the sun.
The mighty struggle on the seas.
A way of life is run.

From "Poems, Prayers and Promises":

I have to say it now it's been good life all in all,
it's really fine to have a chance to hang around.
and lie there by the fire
and watch the evening tire,
while all my friends and my old lady
sit and pass a pipe around
and talk of poems and prayers and promises
and things that we believe in,
how sweet it is to love someone,
how right it is to care,
how long it's been since yesterday
what about tomorrow
what about our dreams
and all the memories we share

pipersgrip · Post by **pipersgrip** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:28 am

Lynard Skynard, "Simple Kind Of Man". i dont have the lyrics though.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:23 pm

ya know whistley, it just takes a second to type that into Google...

Mama told me, when I was young
Come sit beside me, my only son
And listen closely, to what I say.
And if you do this
It will help you some sunny day.

Ohh take your time... Don't live too fast,
Troubles will come, and they will pass.
Go find a woman and you'll find love,
And don't forget son,
There is someone up above.

(Chorus)
And be a simple kind of man.
And maybe some day you'll love and understand.
Baby be a simple kind of man.
Won't you do this for me son,
If you can?

Forget your lust for the rich man's gold
All that you need is in your soul,
And you can do this if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

(Chorus)

Boy, don't you worry... you'll find yourself.
Follow you heart and nothing else.
And you can do this if you try.
All I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

(Chorus)

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:23 pm

izzarina wrote:
And of course I must mention Sinéad O'Connor, who is both a great vocalist and a great singer-songwriter, in my humble opinion. She is best known for singing a cover (Nothing Compares 2 U), but her own songwriting can be absolutely pristine.
Didn't Prince actually write that one for her?

No, Prince recorded it himself in the 80's, but it didn't go anywhere until Sinead covered it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Compares_2_U

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:39 pm

I think meself that once ye get past Dylan, Waits, Taylor, Guthrie and Gershwin there is not a lot left to talk about.

Slan,
D.

BillChin · Post by **BillChin** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:52 pm

My favorite singer/songwriter is John Denver. Being the outdoorsy type myself, I really like the way he incorporated the natural world into his songs.

John Denver is a great songwriter. I just saw a brief clip on TV about "Rocky Mountain High." How John and Annie camped in the mountains above the tree line at 10,000 feet and stayed up all night watching the meteor shower. Evoking the line about "raining fire from the sky."

missy · Post by **missy** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:00 pm

dubhlinn wrote:I think meself that once ye get past Dylan, Waits, Taylor, Guthrie and Gershwin there is not a lot left to talk about.

Slan,
D.

Woody or Arlo???

"I don't want a pickle
I just want to ride my motorcycle"