can products like rain x water repellent damage your whistle

[sponge]

Hi all,

I need to use some kind of water repellent on some whistles that have delrin fipple plugs, I have tried the floss which works a bit, we dont seem to beable to get duponol in the UK, but I have a product called Rain X which is a glass water repellent, on glass you clean the windscreen then apply the liquid with a cloth then sort of polish it off, when the water hits, it beads up and rolls straight of, my concern is it says not to use it on plastic would you consider Delrin as a plastic?????, failing that has anybody tried any other products, washing up liquid is ok but its not long before it starts to fail the Rain X on my windscreen will last for months with one application.

cheers sponge

[StevieJ]

I'd want to be absolutely sure that it isn't harmful to humans if ingested, even in trace amounts, before I worried what it would do to my whistles.

[sponge]

your right steviej

I'll wash my bosses tea cup in the stuff and give it a week


sponge

[Tommy]

your right steviej

I'll wash my bosses tea cup in the stuff and give it a week


sponge

LOL LOL LOL LOL

[Scott McCallister]

Won't he be suspicious when the tea is all balled up in the middle of the cup?

[sponge]

Valid point Scott,

He only needs to drink one cup for me to get an idea of its toxicity, so i'll buy two or three brands of tea and do a blindfold tea tasting challenge,
that way I can get him to knock back three cups, problem solved.

sponge

luckily my boss dose'nt frequent chiff and fipple, for his sins he plays the French Horn

[cloyd]

I don't know that Rain X would be the product of choice. Rain X is made for glass. I would take it that you would want to use this as a treatment for the windway . . . how would you polish it?

The WhistleSmith in Maine recommends silicone spray a specific dry silicone spray. I used the wrong kind and damaged the paint on a whiste (it did not affect the whistle's playability in any negative way). It wasn't the WhisteSmith's fault.

To take a lesson from r******r players, use a little dishwashing soap in the fipple, and then only lightly rinse it out, so as to leave a residue of the detergent . . . It is claimed that the detergent residue will break up the mositure like Rain X does.

I have used one automotive product on my polymer Dixon. I used ArmorAll on the exterior of the whistle. It mades the plastic shine. But then ArmorAll is formulated for plastic and rubber.

ArmorAll is a protectant for vinyl, rubber and plastic. I have a Bible that has imitation leather covers that is actually a soft rubber like plastic. I got some oil on the cover, and it started disolving the plastic cover. I wiped it dry, and used ArmorAll on it and it seemed to stop and even reverse the softening process that the oil had started. To some limited degree, ArmorAll restores limited damage to many plastics. It is not for the purpose you are mentioning, but there might be a use for the stuff out there if somebody gets something really nasty on a plastic whistle or mouthpeice.

[lyrick]

A few years ago I treated a high-end whistle with Rain-X (I'm embarassed to admit it, but I was new, and didn't have a clue at the time). It had no effect on the clogging of the whistle at all. In fact, it etched the Delrin in one spot, thankfully outside the windway. Delrin is extremely tough stuff, and is made to be chemical resistant, so Rain-X must have a very strong chemical in it. (It is made for glass, remember.) Needless to say, I'd suggest not using it. Fortunately it seems to have had no negative effect on my whistle.

I used to use Jet-Dry(?), the dishwashing surfactant that some have recomended here, but it would make my lips and tongue tingly and numb (and I'm a poet and I don't know it). A chemical that does that to my mouth doesn't sound healthy to me.

Duponol is sold at musical instrument stores for woodwinds, now I use either that or liquid soap.

[MTGuru]

Have you tried a recorder dealer? Most would carry Duponol or the equivalent. For example, Saunders Recorders in Bristol (http://www.saundrecs.co.uk) sells the Moeck Maintenance Kit for £5, which includes a bottle of Moeck Anti-Condens, their name for Duponol (Sodium Lauryl Sulfate surfectant). One treatment should last for a week or more of playing, and one small bottle should last for a year or more of treatments.

I'd worry about the long-term effects of a silicone product like Rain-X. Since the stuff is so persistent and a bit "smeary", it might accumulate residue that eventually clogs the windway. Duponol does wear off, so you know there are no lasting effects. And yes, Delrin is a plastic, so lyrick's near-disaster is a cautionary tale.

As for Rain-X toxicity, it's been a while since I tried licking my windscreen! But I do like the idea of the tea taste-test.

Cheers and good luck ...

[Denis]

An MSDS is a Material Safety Data Sheet. They are required for products in the US and Canada that are used in the workplace. Many retail products do have MSDS's available. I did a quick search. There were a number for Rain-X. I thought that this one would be the most appropriate.

http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com/tec ... ?ID=205754

This document indicates that it contains:

WATER, METHYL ALCOHOL, ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL, BUTYL CELLOSOLVE, SILOXANES AND SILICONES

The MSDS quotes the hazard as follows:

Ingestion: Do not ingest. Ingestion of large quantities may be harmful. Can cause central nervous system (CNS) depression if ingested. Can cause reversible or permanent blindness. Ingestion may result in lung aspiration. Aspiration may lead to chemical pneumonitis which is characterized by pulmonary edema and hemorrhage and may be fatal. Signs of lung involvement include increased respiratory rate, increased heart rate, and a bluish discoloration of the skin. Coughing, choking, and gagging are often noted at the time of aspiration.

This warning refers to the blend of ingredients in the product.
Assuming that the alcohol will evaporate off... there would be two ingredients remaining. One of those ingredients, Butyl Cellosolve, is most probably the main contributor.

Here is a reference for an MSDS for Butyl Cellosolve:

http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1396.html

It contains the following warning:

DANGER!! This material is a hemolytic agent and prolonged exposure will cause liver and kidney damage. Effects of over exposure: headache,nausea,dizziness,vomiting,tears,temporary clouding of the eyes,shortness of breathe and irratition of the eyes,nose and throat. Acute: prolonged exposure will make the effects of over exposure more severe. Chronic: none are listed by manufacturer however, it is stated that this material has not been fully investigated. Target organs: eyes,liver, kidneys, and upper respiratory tract. Conditions aggravated/target organs. Persons with pre-existing eye,skin,liver,kidney or respiratory conditions may be more susceptible.

----------------------------------------------------------

.... I wouldn't even give this to my boss !

[sponge]

Thanks to all,

some serious information, I think my best bet is to get the duponol type treatment as the rain x has a definate down side.

thanks again, i'll let you know how I get on.

cheers sponge

[hathair_bláth]

Baldness? That's a side effect I wouldn't have thought of.

[cavefish]

its the first i heard of water repellant