blocked or posted

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:34 pm

this is driven by personal aesthetics. probably a silly thing because not everything that looks pretty works pretty.

However I have never liked the look of block mounted keywork. I like the look of post mounted keywork.

Now I don't want this to be a topic about who likes what the most.

What I would enjoy is reading and learning from comments about the ads and disads of them, from performance, maintenance/mechanical and other angles.

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:36 pm

I assume "ads/disads" means "advantages/disadvantages"?

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:47 pm

Personally, I just like keys, since both are means to keys...it's all good.

However, I've had flutes with both, and if both are well done they work equally well.

Removing keys on block mounted flutes is remarkably easy - just pull the pin out, so that's a plus. However, blocks can swell or shrink which can effect performance, so that's a minus.

Post mounts have to be unscrewed which is more difficult than removing a pin. I also think it's easier to knock post mounts out of whack, but you can usually get them back in alignment yourself pretty easily - so that issue is a wash. However, it's easier to have someone else work on a post mounted instrument (like your neighborhood woodwind repair man who rarely sees a wooden flute), because they are accustomed to working with post mounts. Also, they're easily added to a flute later on whereas retrofitting block mounts, if it's possible, would seem to be much more difficult (we'd need Jon, Terry or Casey to chime in on that one).

Eric

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:09 am

I like both. And both have their ads and disads

IMHO.

My own flute has a very modern pin-mounted key design which goes well with the modern style of the flute itself:

It's not modelled after any particular R&R or Pratten flute, it's more a post-Pratten conical flute with a VERY wide bore and big blowhole, producing a big sound that even barks those evil Prattens into the corner

OTOH, post-mounted keywork looks also nice IMHO if the overall style of the flute is kind of "traditional" regarding shape, bore, blowhole etc. I played an Aebi Pratten and a Rudall last week, and both had block-mounted keys which looked very nice (pewter plugs rock!

).

Can find good photos here...

Technically, I find pin-mounted keys to be more responsive and direct in operation, especially Boehm-style footjoints are simply superior compared to the old pewter plug system, even if thouse plugs look nice.

smoro · Post by **smoro** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:49 am

It is said that posted keys work pretty well along the years, better than block, but aesthetically I prefer blocked.
S.

Ro3b · Post by **Ro3b** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:34 am

Block-mounted keys are more comfortable for me to play. The long F key has a little slotted guide thing that on most flutes is right next to the fifth hole. On blocked flutes it's a block; on post-mounted flutes it's a little metal widget. I play with pretty flat right-hand fingers, and I'd rather feel the block under my middle finger than the sharp little piece of metal.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Everytime I have played block mounted flutes the blocks get in my way since I play a pseudo piper's grip on the right hand. In particular, the long F blocks make my middle finger have issues when playing. Thank God I found a post mounted flute from Jon with a big sound, great tone and wonderful modern intonation. Thanks again, Jon. She is a real beauty.

Cubitt · Post by **Cubitt** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:49 pm

I find block-mounted more aesthetically pleasing and easier to maintain, but I truly think that functionally, one is as good as the other.

One advantage to pn-mounted is that you can design the foot joint to be like a Boehm, which is a definite plus, IMO.

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:47 pm

Cubitt wrote:One advantage to pn-mounted is that you can design the foot joint to be like a Boehm, which is a definite plus, IMO.

Terry McGee has done it with blocks. Look here.

Cubitt · Post by **Cubitt** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:52 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Cubitt wrote:One advantage to pn-mounted is that you can design the foot joint to be like a Boehm, which is a definite plus, IMO.
Terry McGee has done it with blocks. Look here.

Close, but no cigar. The Boehm design features a roller going from C# to C. The D# key is also in a completely different location, which is more ergonomically effective. What McGee has accomplished is to improve the proximity of the keys, but nothing like the Boehm. I wouldn't mind trying one, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:39 pm

Block mounts for me. The only practical reasons I can cite are that resting my lower-hand pinkie on the C-foot pin mounts was uncomfortable for me (and no, I don't vent the Eb, and everything's hunky-dory for it, so let's not go there), and that I also find a pin-mounted 8-key flute to be somewhat heavier then a block-mounted one.

But my main reason for block mounts is, in the end, my aesthetics.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:03 pm

I prefer blocks, though primarily for aesthetic reasons. In my past experience, post mounts have had two pluses: 1) When a block-mounted boxwood flute swells in high humidity the keyways, and thus the action, can get a little sticky; and 2) While my local woodwind repair guy has done some work with my block-mounted flute, he seemed more at home with my old post-mounted flute.

But I still prefer blocks.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm

Cubitt wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
Cubitt wrote:One advantage to pn-mounted is that you can design the foot joint to be like a Boehm, which is a definite plus, IMO.
Terry McGee has done it with blocks. Look here.
Close, but no cigar. The Boehm design features a roller going from C# to C. The D# key is also in a completely different location, which is more ergonomically effective. What McGee has accomplished is to improve the proximity of the keys, but nothing like the Boehm. I wouldn't mind trying one, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

Hey this is a really interesting twist in the discussion for me.
And thanks everyone else for your comments. This is very nice of you.

The only keyed flutes I have played is Boehms to date, flutes of some casual students of mine.

I would really like to know who are the wooden/delrin makers specialising in post and those in block. Any points there?

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:26 pm

talasiga - Unless Jon C. decides to do keys on delrin flutes, all the delrin/polymer makers use post mounts. Casey Burns and Maurice Reviol also use post mounts. Desi Seery will do block or post mounts (on wood, delrin is only post), and I believe Hammy Hamilton will do either, too (unless my memory is incorrect on Hammy).

Most of the other wooden flute makers use block mounts.

Eric

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm

Jayhawk wrote:talasiga - Unless Jon C. decides to do keys on delrin flutes, all the delrin/polymer makers use post mounts. Casey Burns and Maurice Reviol also use post mounts. Desi Seery will do block or post mounts (on wood, delrin is only post), and I believe Hammy Hamilton will do either, too (unless my memory is incorrect on Hammy).

Most of the other wooden flute makers use block mounts.

Eric

I believe that Terry McGee will do a block mounted delrin flute, but you'd have to ask him.