Advice sought -- Do you share your instruments?

[jim stone]

On the two occasions where I've lent people instruments,
they've damaged them badly. They were good friends
of mine too, musicians. Really sucked.

If you're uncomfortable doing this, just say no.
You can say, No, I'm not comfortable lending my harp.
If she persists, you can say: I prefer to keep it here.

You are under no obligations, and if you don't feel like doing
it, don't.

Also she may not ask. An option is just to make up your
mind to say No if she does, then forget about it.

[CHasR]

I would *never* lend anyone one of my instruments under any circumstances.
Altho once, in order to form a duo, I bought 2 instruments and gave one to the other half of the duo, (hey cant play em both at once!) It was paid off once the duo had comittments.
These things are my livelihood & Ive had to shell out for every single one of em. Why risk it?

[djm]

Hmmm, this stuff could get very complicated pretty fast. What if you say no to her the first time she asks? The next time she's over at your place, things might be very uneasy. I suggest that you try to make amends by holding out your instrument to her and asking her if she wants to pluck.

djm

[cowtime]

I've shared instruments if I don't really care whether they come back, but one that I love and play - no way!!!!! I don't think that's selfish at all. I think that's just being smart. I can't imagine even thinking about asking to borrow someone else's instrument- anyone that would ask that...just doesn't "get it".

[mutepointe]

keep it simple. i liked the advice of saying that you don't feel comfortable. i'd also ask her what her plans are. you sound like you're feeling uncomftable already and you need to ease this concern for your own well-being. also, any person who would try to breech your comfort zone is probably the exact person that you shouldn't lend your instrument to.

please keep us up on what happens.

[talasiga]

.......
OTOH, if she does not have a harp to play, she will not be able to stay with the band. We brought her in to sing, but she she is reluctant to do this in front of other people (including us).
.......

If the band brought her in to sing and she is reluctant to sing, the band should ask her to leave your harp alone.

[Chiffed]

To the question:

No.

Not anymore. Burned too many times by otherwise good people.

Caveat: If I have several, or they're cheapies, or it's a goofy instrument I see would be better off in the hands of someone who would play it, then maybe.

Crap; what's a Dusty Strings Ravena (for an example of a basic sevicable harp) worth, anyway? Less than a fairly bad saxophone? Less than a keyless Hammy? Less than a very small pocketfull of Abells?

Then again, Charlie Parker used to hawk his alto for heroin, then borrow anything he could get. Is she that good?

[Redwolf]

To the question:

No.

Not anymore. Burned too many times by otherwise good people.

Caveat: If I have several, or they're cheapies, or it's a goofy instrument I see would be better off in the hands of someone who would play it, then maybe.

Crap; what's a Dusty Strings Ravena (for an example of a basic sevicable harp) worth, anyway? Less than a fairly bad saxophone? Less than a keyless Hammy? Less than a very small pocketfull of Abells?

Then again, Charlie Parker used to hawk his alto for heroin, then borrow anything he could get. Is she that good?

"Basic, serviceable harp?" I'll have you know that they're very nice harps indeed...in fact, the tone is better than the FH26.

A Ravenna 26 with full levers is $970. A 34 with full levers is $1795. That's not including a case ($95, minimum, for the 26; $195 for the 34) or a leg set ($99).

Redwolf

[chrisoff]

If the answer to this question is "Get real," the discussion should be closed. Forget about her playing your instrument and instead concentrate on playing it yourself
...
But if the answer is "It's worth a shot," then . . . well, give her your instrument and let her pluck away.

Are we still talking about Harps here?

[avanutria]

Is your harp insured? if it is, does that insurance cover damage when other people are using it in a place that is not your home?

If not, there's your answer.

I know nothing about harp insurance unfortunately, so I don't know if this has been a helpful comment or not. I do know, however, that I am extremely hesitant to lend my concertinas for even a single set, and one time when I did lend a delicate one, the player played it so roughly that I thought it would break in his hands, and I will never let someone else play that one again.

[jim stone]

I'm actually amazed sometimes by how untogether
people are, how destructive of property...people
who look perfectly normal can do horrible
things to lovely equipment. I thought I was bad,
but really I'm just disorganized.

And it happens on multiple fronts. I once left the
country for the summer. I had to make a payment
on my student loan, so I wrote the check, put it
in a stamped addressed envelope. My landlord,
a nice fellow and an engineer, married, responsible,
said--I'll mail that for you, going to the post office
this afternoon. I told him what it was and that
it mattered.

Two months later I returned. He hadn't mailed
the letter. The Feds had gone after the cosigners....

I proceed now on the assumption that people
who look alright are going to screw up.

[djm]

Its a cosmic thing. The more reliable, decent, and well-intentioned the other person is, the greater the likelihood that they will be distracted/deflected/misdirected/bent/folded/mutilated. Any hopes/plans/agreements you have with such a person are destined to failure, including destruction commensurate with the value of any instrument you lend them.

djm

[fluti31415]

Thanks to everyone!! Whenever someone yanks my chain, I've found it helpful to get a neutral opinion on the situation to see if it's me or if it's the other person, or if it's some combination of internal and external factors. I feel much better to see that I'm not the only one here who feels this way about it! She has excellent intentions, but is not the most reliable person in the world, and now I know how to proceed, if it even comes up.

Here are some answers to the questions that were raised, in case anyone's interested. I'll definitely let you all know what happened, when it's all said and done -- although I hope it is a boring "I worked out a rental with the local music store, and my inlaws who are loaded are taking me to look at harps for my birthday" or something like that.

The "grapevine" in this case is pretty reliable - it's a friend who had read her online journal (saved in Myspace, or someplace like that, where you have to have a password to see it.) So I am pretty confident that she did sell it and is using the money for other purposes. However, she is inconsistent enough that she could be using the *harp* money to pay off a bill, but then use *other* money to buy a harp, without recognizing that it's all just money.

I recognize, as you all pointed out, that this is no indication that she is going to ask to use mine; I'm just trying to work out an answer if she does ask, so I'm not caught like a deer in the headlights.

I have tried to get her on the phone, but I'm out with rehearsals a few days in the beginning of the week, so we've been playing phone tag.

Coltrane (John OR Alice!) she's not -- in fact, no matter what instrument she's playing, she is the weakest musician in the band, and she does slow the rest of us down (not that we are a speeding freight train, thundering to fame and fortune ourselves!) But that's another reason to make sure I'm being fair, since I would hate to be so coldhearted as to kick someone out for not being as skilled as the rest of us.

I've not played a Ravenna, but I have heard nice things about them, especially for the price. This is a 35 string R harp, about $3K new. Mine is 13 months old. So not an overly expensive instrument, for a harp, but WY more money than either she or I would feel good about risking. And even though insured through my homeowners (I checked, it's even covered if I earn money with it, as long as I don't earn too much money with it. And there's no danger of THAT!), it's the relationship with the friend that would suffer.

[Martin Milner]

Coltrane (John OR Alice!) she's not -- in fact, no matter what instrument she's playing, she is the weakest musician in the band, and she does slow the rest of us down (not that we are a speeding freight train, thundering to fame and fortune ourselves!) But that's another reason to make sure I'm being fair, since I would hate to be so coldhearted as to kick someone out for not being as skilled as the rest of us.

So she's a singer who doesn't sing, and a beginner harpist who doesn't own a harp, so she isn't going to be practising or improving?

Sounds like a wannabee musician who can't be bothered to put the time, money or effort into her music, and she has no place in the band.

[Scott McCallister]

Coltrane (John OR Alice!) she's not -- in fact, no matter what instrument she's playing, she is the weakest musician in the band, and she does slow the rest of us down (not that we are a speeding freight train, thundering to fame and fortune ourselves!) But that's another reason to make sure I'm being fair, since I would hate to be so coldhearted as to kick someone out for not being as skilled as the rest of us.

Is it really that "coldhearted"? Try this on for size... Let's consider the "band" as just as tangible an instrument as your harp is for making music. Only now you have the investment of several others at risk as well, where every musician involved has to care for the instrument. If the efforts of your other bandmates are being stunted by this half hearted musician, it's conceivable that eventually they will become frustrated enough with always having to work toward her least common denominator that they will simply walk away.

Coming off of a really great set where everyone was in the groove and feeling each other will really add fuel to the fire and boost morale and excitement in advancing the band. Instances where this will ALMOST happen because of the instrumentless vo-flu-harpist will throw a wet blanket on it all. It could cause much more resentment toward her than letting her know she really has to close the gap from where she is and where the band needs her to be.