Advice sought -- Do you share your instruments?

fluti31415 · Post by **fluti31415** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:43 am

I am potentially facing a kind of strange situation, and I wanted to check in with others, just to get a reality check on this.

I am mainly a flute player, but about a year ago, I decided that I wanted to learn how to play the harp. I have a large-ish lever harp that I sometimes take to our local slow session and private parties, but that I mostly play by myself. I am not a good player yet, but I see improvement, and I can now say that I've graduated to being an intermediate player.

I have also been playing (flute) with three others on a regular basis, in hopes of getting music together for a band. We practice at my house, and one of the players, a harpist, uses my harp for practice, but her own for the few performances we've done. I have loaned her a spare wooden flute to practice on.

We're in a month-long hiatus, and I have heard through the grapevine that she has sold her harp. She had been talking about selling her harp, and buying a smaller more portable one. The grapevine tells me that she is now planning to use the money from the sale for other means.

I have a pretty strong suspicion that she will ask to use my harp every time that she is not playing at her own house. I am very uncomfortable with this thought. I hope that she does not ask, but I am more than 50% certain that she will. This is *my* harp, and my only harp - it's not like the extra the flute I loaned her, which is one that doesn't get played much. I don't ask to use her instrument. If I had need for a pedal harp, I would rent one. I also do not relish the thought of either lugging my instrument around for someone else to play, or letting that person take the instrument out of my immediate vicinity.

OTOH, if she does not have a harp to play, she will not be able to stay with the band. We brought her in to sing, but she she is reluctant to do this in front of other people (including us).

If she does ask to use my harp for more than just rehearsing at my house, I want to have thought this through, and give a well thought out answer that I will not have to go back on in the future.

Opinions? Am I being stingy? Are there other things I haven't considered? Of course, I don't know the details of her financial situation, but she has indicated to me that she is comfortable, and happy that she can meet her obligations and afford "extras" in her life, so I *think* that the sale was not for need. Do you let others play your instruments on a routine basis? Under what circumstances would you consider this to be ok? I know that this is my decision to make, but hearing other people's opinions can help me to see if I am being unreasonable about this.

Thank you to everyone!! I would have posted this in a harp discussion list, but I'm afraid she would see it. I know that this forum is safer.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:55 am

I wouldn't pay much attention to the "grapevine." There are people who just cannot stand a quiet day and love to try to stir things up a bit.

Were it me, I'd probably ask her myself and clear up any confusion before it has a chance to grow.

--James

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:57 am

Without truely knowing the motive, that is a tough question. Who knows, maybe she isn't interested in pursuing the harp any further?
My first instincts are in-line with the thoughts you've shared though. I would talk to her and bring it out in the open before you begin to resent her for (possibly) no reason.
Assuming she is mooching:
I have a spare bodhran that I have on loan to a bandmate but, again, it's a spare instrument and one that I wouldn't lose any sleep over should it be damaged... I also don't have to tote it around. A harp is a different animal, it's fragile and it's quite a load to lug around, especially for someone else. I think that the type of relationship that stands between the two of you is something to consider as well. If you were close friends and there was a valid reason for her to sell her harp and be usuing yours then that would be, even if a minor inconvenience to you, no big deal. Since it doesn't sound like you are close with this person I'd say your feelings are valid. My other thought is this: if she is using your instrument to make a profit (gigging, etc.) then I'd say she owes you something in return for the trouble.

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:58 am

I lend one of my mandolins to a friend every session, but then all my instruments are relatively inexpensive and I could replace them if I had to.

If I had one that I couldn't afford to replace and no other to lend, then I would apologetically decline to continue equipping him, and he'd have to buy his own.

I don't think it is stingy or unkind to be uncomfortable lending an instrument. You should not feel bad.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:01 am

I'd say you're not being stingy.

There have been occasions when a bandmate has loaned me his Abell on occasion, which I used to own, but that I sold to him, because I'd sold all of my high-end whistles to fund a lathe purchase. Even though I used to own it, I'm not really comfortable borrowing it. It's now his whistle.

It seems a bit presumptuous on her part if she sold her harp under the assumption she could use yours. On the other hand, it seems a bit inadvisable if she sold her harp for need, because then if anything happened to your harp while she was using it, who'd replace it or pay to have it repaired?

I often pass whistles I own to people I know...but I don't really think it's the same thing really.

peeplj wrote:I wouldn't pay much attention to the "grapevine." There are people who just cannot stand a quiet day and love to try to stir things up a bit.

Were it me, I'd probably ask her myself and clear up any confusion before it has a chance to grow.

--James

That's some intelligent advice

missy · Post by **missy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:18 am

We have actual "loaner" instruments - student models that we specifically have to loan out to those that don't have an instrument.
What we do is ask for a $100 (that's what they cost) check, but we do NOT cash the check. When the person returns the dulcimer, we give them the uncashed check back. If someone would disappear, or want to keep the instrument, we have payment for it.

I have loaned out another, more expensive, instrument (Hammered dulcimer) - but again - it was to a beginner who didn't have one, and instead of purchasing one I offered mine to see if he really wanted to play it. He eventually did buy his own, and I got mine back about, oh, 8, 9 months afterwards. But I didn't need it at the time, so had no problems with that.
He also offered a high end flute to be "held" as collateral, but I didn't feel the need to do that.

One thing I would NOT do is be responsible for bringing the instrument to every gig, etc. If she's going to play it routienly, then she needs to be responsible for taking care of it.

chrisoff · Post by **chrisoff** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:07 am

I've loaned out my guitars and amp (a heavy beast) on one-off occasions to trusted friends and family. I would also let other guitarists use my amp at gigs I was also playing at.

However I wouldn't lend someone an instrument every time they needed one. Instead I would tell them politely that perhaps they should invest in their own one if they're going to get that much use out of it.

Anglorfin · Post by **Anglorfin** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:15 am

If she owned a harp she should know what an investment it is and what a prized item it is. Now that she sold it I think she should realize how you feel about yours.

Then again she might also reply with the fact that she knows what she is doing and knows how to take care of it because she once had a harp. But then why did she sell it? It's sort of a loose catch-22 I suppose.

I've loaned instruments before, but never ever have I loaned an instrument that I only have ONE of. No matter how trustworthy the individual was who asked for it. If I have multiples I'm usually very generous, or if there is an item that I know I won't be using for a while. Like an old effect pedal for my guitar.

Bottom line, if you only own that one harp and you expect yourself to want to play it then you are under no obligation to loan it. You shouldn't even feel guilty. Your friend should understand that.

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:17 am

Nothing like the politics of a band. As another suggested, I would cut to the chase and uncover the truth.

My expensive instruments are not loaned. If I drop my $9000 flamenco guitar, it is on my head. If a band mate is selling off instruments to pay the rent; AND borrows the guitar and drops it, how long would it take to repay $9000? I do not believe you are being stingy.

These days when I play I look at it as a business first. When I was young (and single), playing music was more of a life style and issues like this could get a bit fuzzy... is she pretty?

I would never presume to ask to borrow an instrument as I know how hard I had to work to buy mine. Of couse I am not talking about $6.00 penny whistles.

It sounds like you are generous by nature; but, if you did loan it and something happened to the harp, it could put a strain on the band and the relationship between you and the vocalist who does not sing.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:23 am

Do what experienced craftspeople of all stripes have always done: just make it a blanket policy to never loan your tools. If you were bringing the harp to wherever anyways, and they asked to play it in front of you, that's one thing, but to start using you as a free instrument supply, that's something you should not allow to start. If your group depends on this person for harping, and they go out and sell their harp, I would take this as a warning sign.

djm

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:28 pm

I hope you find that you are not correct and that she will not push for use of yours. She has her own instrument, right? Unless the practice/event is at your home, where it would make sense to let her use yours rather than cart hers, I say, she has her own, she should bring it.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:39 pm

I would never loan out my harps. A person who is at my house, or at a gathering to which I've brought them, is welcome to play them, but there's just no way I'd let someone else take them to a gig, or even home to practice on. They're just too easily damaged (and too expensive to replace!).

Nor would I lug it to performances so she could play it. That's just too much to ask. If she still wants to be with the band, she can use the instrument she was born with (and which she was brought in to use)...her voice. If she's reluctant to sing in front of people (including her band mates) either she has no voice or she has no self confidence...and neither is conducive to a good performance!

Music teacher often RENT harps to students (and I believe that at least some of the rental fee goes to insure the harp, lest it be damaged or stolen and the other person not have sufficient insurance to cover it), but that's a whole different story.

If this were me, I'd say she's welcome to play it at your home, but if she needs a harp to take to other gigs, or to practice on in her home, she'll need to buy or rent her own.

Redwolf

Scott McCallister · Post by **Scott McCallister** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:59 pm

djm wrote:Do what experienced craftspeople of all stripes have always done: just make it a blanket policy to never loan your tools. If you were bringing the harp to wherever anyways, and they asked to play it in front of you, that's one thing, but to start using you as a free instrument supply, that's something you should not allow to start. If your group depends on this person for harping, and they go out and sell their harp, I would take this as a warning sign.

djm

Agreed. This person is not performing to the level in which she was asked to participate in the first place. I mean, hey! she showed up agreeing to be a singer and isn't comfortable singing?!... Not terribly egregious as things tend to evolve in a band, but she has now sold the instrument that she was previously performing with... kind of a red flag

From my personal experience, I do not loan my instruments to others. With my stringed instruments the few times I have done this they come back with belt buckle marks and pick rash. The rest are wind instruments and that's just kind of yucky. Really the only thing I allow occasional use of is a very large stationary KORG keyboard that people can use when laying down piano tracks while recording at my studio. Past that, they gotta have their own ax. (Mics are kind of different in that regard, but when recording, they typically don't have to even touch my mics)

It is a bit of an expectation that if you are going to perform with a group you have your own instrument (that includes voice). If you were letting her use your harp for rehearsals out of the convenience that she only had to haul a harp to perform with, then there is a bit of economy of motion there.

The next time you rehearse, I would tell her you heard she sold her harp and ask how the search is going for a new one. She'll probably answer in 1 of 3 ways.

A: If she suggests the use of yours, laugh about it and tell her that you have no intention of "hauling that monster around".

B: If she tries to skirt the issue, then remind her of your next performance date and that she'll need an instrument to perform on, because you have no intention of "hauling that monster around"

C: If she says she is well on her way to getting that new harp, then join in her excitement. If she fails in getting the harp prior to your next gig, then go back to "B:"

Honestly? It sounds like she is not long for your band...even a larger concern than the harp, you might want to ask for that flute back now too.

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:08 pm

I don't give people instruments (other than cheap whistles, maybe) to take home. They can play them all they want while I'm there, but those instruments are mine, and they're not going to leave my immediate vicinity. Not stingy at all.

gonzo914 · Post by **gonzo914** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:31 pm

I think there are other considerations that haven't been covered, band-related social considerations, if you will.

When asked by someone if they can borrow your instrument, you must first ask yourself "Would I like to have sex with this person?" This is especially important if asked by a girl singer.

If the answer is "No, I would not," then you are under no obligation to give her your instrument, and the discussion should be closed.

If however, your answer ranges from "I could be persuaded" to "Holy crap, yes," then you must ask yourself "What are my chances of getting to do that based simply upon my personality and demeanor?"

If you answer is "Pretty damn good. I'm hot," then lending the instrument is superfluous and the discussion should be closed.

If, however, you have the social sensibilities of a troll and the answer is "I don't stand a prayer in hell," then you must ask yourself "Would letting her use my instrument increase the chances of my getting to have sex with this person?"

If the answer to this question is "Get real," the discussion should be closed. Forget about her playing your instrument and instead concentrate on playing it yourself, perhaps in a different band.

But if the answer is "It's worth a shot," then . . . well, give her your instrument and let her pluck away.