What else do people play (other than ITM)?

[walrii]

In other words, what do you hear that lets you know immediately that a person is not a "native"?

It might be hard to put in words. I am a non-native Yank learning via C&F, mp3s and various tutorial sites. My guess is, I sound like fingernails on a blackboard to those who grew up with ITM. However, progress can be made. I've been working on "Napolean Crossing the Rhine" for a while now. I've listened to Micho Russell's version and, last week, I decided I was quick enough to try playing along. I could almost keep up but something was all wrong. Micho's version was "bouncy," for lack of a better word, while mine sounded flat and lifeless. I tried playing along again and then mine sounded better. I haven't a clue what I changed but the tune bounces now. Trouble is, I have to listen to Micho's mp3 before I play it or I go back to my old, flat style.

Like Susu, I'd be interested to hear what the "natives" have to say about all this.

[colomon]

Keep on playing the tune with Micho!

What you're describing (both the process of discovery and possibly what you discovered as well) sounds like my experience with playing swing in reels. The session seemed to be taking a break after a couple of hours of playing, and just for kicks I launched into one of my own tunes. About halfway through I realized I was playing it with a swing and bounce I'd never played it with before -- I'd picked up the rhythm of the better players at the session subconsciously. Once I knew what was going on, I tried to focus on learning to reproduce it, and a month or two later I could do it intentionally, whenever I wanted to.

[Susu]

Micho's version was "bouncy," for lack of a better word, while mine sounded flat and lifeless.

That is one of the first things I noticed about ITM, when I really started listening to it with a critical ear. The rythm is very elusive, and I haven't yet been able to "pin it down" so to speak. At first, it sounded very "straight" to me. Then I realized that it had a little "swing" to it, but not the dotted-eighth--sixteenth type swing I'm used to hearing. It seems to be somewhere between straight and swing.
Actually it seems to be everywhere between the two. As I hear more good playing, it seems that, while the tempo is consistent throughout each song, the rythm changes subtly from measure to measure. Coming from a concert-band background, I have found this freer style dificult to emulate. Currently, my jigs and reels sound like a series of arpeggios.
I have found though that a pint of Guiness or a dram of whiskey serves to loosen up the finger joints a bit!

[cadancer]

"If you haven't been listening to ITM since the day you were born, no matter what you do, you'll never be able to play it correctly, so don't bother."

So, my question is this: What else do people play on the whistle?

Susu,

Here is my 2 cents...

I was born and raised in California and still live here. I have been playing a Bulgarian Kaval (end-blown shepard's flute) for a long time. I love Bulgarian music and it is the *process* that is important to me, not the result.

I have recently decided that I want to start playing Irish music. I love Irish music too and have Irish ancestors on both sides of my family (no Bulgarian).

I think the question should be:

Do I like Irish music?

If so, just start the process and let the result take care of itself.

...john

[Anita's Dad]

Someone mentioned "too much tonguing" as being a problem and I agree. That comes from American school music programs which are really all about marching/martial music.

My kids both started sax and flute in their schools and they tongue EVERYTHING to death. Now the sax player has quit band so that she can concentrate on playing "real music." (When the new band director added "majorettes" who twirl fake rifles, she was pretty much out the door...)

We're into any form of Celtic (Irish, Scots, whatever) and all of the various American derivatives. Tim O'Brien is a friend of ours and even though he's considered a "bluegrass" musician, he's absolutely at home in an Irish or Scots session with ANYBODY. He grasps the deep connection between real American music and the different forms of Celtic playing. He's inspired my kids to go down the same road.

This reminds me of how everybody says that is sooo hard to go from playing a high D tapered bore "pennywhistle" to a straight bore "pro" low D whistle.

Well, nobody told my kids that, so they just grabbed the low D and started wailing away!

Of course, listening to today's great Irish neo-trad players is a good idea... because it's GREAT music. But face it, most of us will NEVER play like we were born into the Vallely clan no matter what we do. (Having somebody named "Vallely" in your band is like having somebody named "Hull" on your hockey team.)

For one thing, those guys are FAST, I mean REALLY fast. But would you consider giving up playing sax, just because who can't play like Charlie Parker? I can play a few notes on a guitar but I ain't never gonna be Richard Thompson. Well, don't give up the whistle because you can't play like Niall Vallely or Kevin Crawford or Rory Campbell (or Brian Finnegan or Seamus Egan, or whomever -- you know what I mean.)

And, of course, get to every single live gig that you can. That means spending all of your time between Valentine's Day and Easter on the road...

We've been REALLY fortunate to have veteran local players start a "slow session" so the kids can learn trad tunes without the pressure of being in a more competitive sessiun.

And forget EVERYTHING that rotten junior high band teacher told you!

[okewhistle]

This may sound bizarre, but I was once part of a community where we did a lot of Israeli circle dancing. When I took up the whistle I found I could play those tunes dead easily.

Most ITM is dance music but I have never, for example, danced a jig. I strongly expect that if I could dance it I could play it a whole heap better. Does anyone know how I could learn to dance a jig or a reel?

Steve

[Louigi Verona]

Yes - go to Irish dance classes.

I go in for Scottish Country Dancing. Not sure it helps me to play better, though

[cadancer]

Someone mentioned "too much tonguing" as being a problem and I agree. That comes from American school music programs which are really all about marching/martial music.

I doubt we can blame all tonguing on the American school system. I think it is natural to try and get some separation from notes for rythmic reasons while you are learning. Especially if the notes are the same note repeatedly.

The question is whether you are willing to try and make the separations with another technique (some orament) as you learn more.

I am just starting with the flute and whistle, and recently bought a second book + CD resource "The Complete Irish Tinwhistle Tunebook" by L.E McCullough. It is great, comes with 4 CDs, has 125 tunes that are played slowly and also at a brisker pace. The whistle is backed up by piano and guitar, which is very nice.

Having said all of that, I think that the whistle playing on the CD sounds like it has too much tonguing for my taste.

Okay, so later after I learn it, I will play it differently.

For all I know as a newbie, parts of Ireland have a tonging style and others don't. I know that is true about Bulgarian music ( I play Bulgarian kaval) where parts of the country tongue it and others don't.

Respectfully submitted,

John

[colomon]

For all I know as a newbie, parts of Ireland have a tonging style and others don't.

I think what has happened is when newbies make their first attempts at playing ITM, tonguing way too much is a common obvious flaw -- and one of the easiest to describe with words, so it always gets mentioned. In turn, this has led to people believing tonguing should be forbidden or rare, which is very nearly equally as wrong as the first position.

Grey Larsen notates tonguing (and throating, similar musically, but done differently) using slurs in his transcriptions, making it easy to visually take in what is going on. Styles differ not only from region to region, but from player to player and from tune to tune -- most notably, he's got Josie McDermott playing a reel on flute with very little tonguing, and a polka on whistle with perhaps 85% of the notes tongued.