Carbon fibre

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:07 am

Pardon me for spelling "fibre" according to Her Majesty's English.

The subject is:-

Anyone know of anyone making
simple system flutes with carbon fibre?

I am not talking MATIT here - they be making Boehm flutes

Basch · Post by **Basch** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:22 am

I want a carbon whistle. That would be awsome

bill · Post by **bill** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:23 am

oops, double post.

bill · Post by **bill** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:23 am

This might be kind of off-subject, I've never seen any flutes or any woodwinds made out of carbon fiber. I have some experience in building boats with composites and fibre-glass and from what I know, raw carbon fiber can be a pretty big health hazard. I've heard that just to handle the stuff takes alot of protective clothing because the fibers are very stiff and lightwheight and they'll very quickly get into your skin and lungs. Carbon fiber is also ridiculously expensive, but aren't most handmade flutes expensive? A carbon flute would be sweet though.

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 am

John Coltman's experiments, published in Scientific American Magazine, proved that the construction material of the flute has little influence on sound production.

As A maker of woodwinds, I have found that any vibration felt in the flute body robs energy from the excited air-column. It is the internal physical shape of the instrument and toneholes that determine acoustic perfection. Almost all Acoustic Engineers feel the same.

Jack Bradshaw · Post by **Jack Bradshaw** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:23 am

Thomas-Hastay wrote:John Coltman's experiments, published in Scientific American Magazine, proved that the construction material of the flute has little influence on sound production.

As A maker of woodwinds, I have found that any vibration felt in the flute body robs energy from the excited air-column. It is the internal physical shape of the instrument and toneholes that determine acoustic perfection. Almost all Acoustic Engineers feel the same.

Except for us acoustic physicists who know that the acoustic impedance match, the viscous and thermal effects, while small, do make a difference as well......

Matt_Paris · Post by **Matt_Paris** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:58 am

Thomas-Hastay wrote:It is the internal physical shape of the instrument and toneholes that determine acoustic perfection. Almost all Acoustic Engineers feel the same.

I've heard that a thousand times and do not agree. Maybe the engineers you're talking about just don't have a musical ear? I don't think the differences are big, but they exist. I've read the article (not very carefully though) and I don't think Mr Coltman really analyses all the sound variables.

I played several examples of the same model of soprano saxophone (yanagisawa) in regular brass, bronze and silver, and recorded them, the same day, in the same room, with the same setup. They do sound different. There are more differences between a brass and a silver sax than between two brass ones. (At the end, I took the brass one, very good horn, it's for sale if anyone's interested

)

I'm quite sure that if all professional Boehm players use silver flutes it's not only because silver is beautiful.

Thomas-Hastay wrote:As A maker of woodwinds, I have found that any vibration felt in the flute body robs energy from the excited air-column.

I completely agree. And different materials rob it differently. Try Generation whistles in brass or nickel, they sound different. Definitely.

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:33 pm

John Coltman's experiments ... proved that the construction material of the flute has little influence on sound production.

Here we go again....

rama · Post by **rama** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:52 pm

my experiments have proven that a fluteplayer can sound like a cow, but a cow cannot possibly sound like a fluteplayer who is actually sounding more like a fluteplayer than a cow.
unless it's 'the cow that ate the blanket'. then you have a constipated cow and a fluteplayer without a blanket. which proves cows and fluteplayers really shouldn't hang out together, or at least not try to share the same blankie. but hey sometimes i do get lonely...

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:53 pm

Jack Bradshaw wrote:
Thomas-Hastay wrote:John Coltman's experiments, published in Scientific American Magazine, proved that the construction material of the flute has little influence on sound production.

As A maker of woodwinds, I have found that any vibration felt in the flute body robs energy from the excited air-column. It is the internal physical shape of the instrument and toneholes that determine acoustic perfection. Almost all Acoustic Engineers feel the same.
Except for us acoustic physicists who know that the acoustic impedance match, the viscous and thermal effects, while small, do make a difference as well......

Fight! Fight!

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:54 pm

bill wrote:This might be kind of off-subject, I've never seen any flutes or any woodwinds made out of carbon fiber.

http://www.matitflutes.com/

Kevin Krell

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:02 pm

Jack Bradshaw wrote:
Thomas-Hastay wrote:John Coltman's experiments, published in Scientific American Magazine, proved that the construction material of the flute has little influence on sound production.

As A maker of woodwinds, I have found that any vibration felt in the flute body robs energy from the excited air-column. It is the internal physical shape of the instrument and toneholes that determine acoustic perfection. Almost all Acoustic Engineers feel the same.
Except for us acoustic physicists who know that the acoustic impedance match, the viscous and thermal effects, while small, do make a difference as well......

We NEED you to finish the concrete flute, so we can settle this once and for all!!!!

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:30 pm

kkrell wrote:
bill wrote:This might be kind of off-subject, I've never seen any flutes or any woodwinds made out of carbon fiber.
http://www.matitflutes.com/

Kevin Krell

They missed a trick here only using plain old carbon fibre, plainly a Diamond or a Buckyball flute would be the bee's bendies.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:40 pm

treeshark wrote:
kkrell wrote:
bill wrote:This might be kind of off-subject, I've never seen any flutes or any woodwinds made out of carbon fiber.
http://www.matitflutes.com/

Kevin Krell
They missed a trick here only using plain old carbon fibre, plainly a Diamond or a Buckyball flute would be the bee's bendies.

I think you mean buckytubes rather than buckyballs. I think a buckyball (with a buckyfipple), being closed-end, would be more like an ocarina.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:01 pm

bill wrote:This might be kind of off-subject, I've never seen any flutes or any woodwinds made out of carbon fiber.
......

Yes, I know you're a newbie here and so I will take some care to politely suggest that when partaking in a topic you might read the first post in the topic and follow any links provided therein. I took some trouuble to provide a link to a carbon fibre maker of Boehm flutes.

As to the other participants who want a bun fight about material differences from material differences, I would like to emphasise that my interest in carbon fibre flutes is prompted by the fact that it is a very strong, durable material and very LIGHT.

The topic is about whether there are any simple flute makers making in carbon fibre. However, I do not wish to be PRESCRIPTIVE about how you all choose to partake in this topic. Have a bun fight if you must. But please, PLEASE, Brer Chiffers, please spell "fibre" according to the Queen's English. If the Finns can do it (Matit website refers, so can you)!