Calling all 8-key players

[Cathy Wilde]

Anything to piss off the fiddlers.

If only that was as easy (at least in Kentucky, anyway) as playing in Bb.

[GalegoMan]

Playing galician music, sometimes I need all the keys and beyond . The only key I hate is Bb, because my left thumb's position is so far from it to allow change quickly to Bb

[cocusflute]

Around North Clare it's called The Quilty H.P. and it's played in D. But nobody around here plays in Bb- at least not in sessions with instruments other than fiddles.

[peeplj]

Well, as B-flat tunes go, this one does lie nicely on the (keyed) flute, and B-flat really isn't a bad key at all for a 6-key flute anyway, once you really learn to use the keys.

And that's one thing that makes this tune valuable in its own right: if you learn this tune in B-flat, you'll come out of it knowing how to use the keys.

Before the invention of the Boehm-system flute, people used to routinely play in all keys on keyed simple-system flutes; when the Boehm system flutes became available, many accomplished flutists resisted (and even resented) the new system, because they felt the old system of fingering was easier in all keys.

If you have the keys, might as well learn to use them.

--James

[I.D.10-t]

And how could one play songs like "Five Dollar Job Schottische"* without keys?

X:1
T:Five Dollar Job Schottische
M:C|
L:1/8
R:Reel
S:Howe – 1000 Jigs and Reels (c. 1867)
Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion
K:F
(fg) | (^ga) c4 (fe) | (ed) G4 (ba) | (ag) B4 (ag) | (gf) A4 (fg) | (^ga) c4 (fe) |
(ed) G4 (ba) | (ag) B2 =Bc(ag) | f2f2f2 :|
K:C
ef | ge (c’2 c’)eag | fA (d2 d2) dc | B>cd>e f>ga>g | e’d’ (c’2 c’2) ef | ge (c’2 c’)eag ||
K:F
fA (d2 d2) dc | B>cd>e f>ga>b | .c.c.c.c .c.cd_e |
K:Bb
fd (b2 b)dgf | eB (c2c2) e’>d’ | d”>c’b>a g>f=e>f | d’c’ (b2 b2) d_e | fd (b2 b)dgf |
eB (c2 c2) cB | ABcd efga | b2b2b2 z2 :: g>^fg>a b>g d’2 | a^f d’2 bg d’2 |
f>=ef>g a>f c’2 | g>=ec’>e ff(ef) | (ag^f=f =e_eGA) | Bd (f2 f)=e f2 |
_b=a(AA) f2 (ga) | (ab) (B2 B)f(=ef) | (ag^f=f =e_eGA) | Bd (f2 f)=e f2 |
_a=a (A2 A)f_eA | B2B2B2 :|

convert here: http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

I don't think I'll be playing that tune for a while, although I have wondered what it sounds like and how difficult the key changes were.
*ABC provided because the The Fiddler’s Companion version had some quirks when converted by the tune-o-tron both with rendering and key signature. For some reason they use B_ to indicate Bb leaving the key signature in B rather than Bb as written in Howe’s book

[Tweeto]

What’s the best way to buy an 8-keyed flute; is there a way that a newbie can know whether they’ll be able to successfully use the pinkie keys, so that they don’t have to later buy yet another expensive, custom instrument?

[jim stone]

What’s the best way to buy an 8-keyed flute; is there a way that a newbie can know whether they’ll be able to successfully use the pinkie keys, so that they don’t have to later buy yet another expensive, custom instrument?

I believe a good number of 8-keyed flutes don't work very well,
the bottom two keys. If they don't work, of course you won't
be able to play them. If these keys do work well you
will probably be able to use them, sooner or later.

So it might be helpful to find out which 8-keyed flutes
really work. I know the Grinter does, I know Kate's
Dave Williams flute does... As to others, I don't know.
Perhaps people will chime in with info about Aebis
and whatever else. Hammy H. makes one too, I believe.
So does Dave Copley.

But IMO the entire exercise depends largely on resting the
rt pinky on the Eb key. A lot of people don't/can't do this,
the key moves, it has to be adjusted so that it doesn't
move too easily but you can still move it. Obviously
one won't use the bottom two keys if the footjoint
is rolled around on the other side of the flute!

That project, bracing the pinky on the Eb key, can be
accomplished, but it takes some practice. Finally
it works fine.

So, in a way, good preparation for an 8 key is playing
for awhile a 6 key. Keys take a good deal of getting used
to, at least for me. By the way, it may be possible
to move up incrementally, by trading in one's old
bottom foot for a 3-keyed one. Some makers
may be willing.

So, that said, the crucial question is--which 8-keyed flutes
actually work?

[Nanohedron]

Noy.

-- Edited to add that the fact of keys working well isn't enough. Ergonomics counts. I know of one eight-key flute that works, but the touches for the two bottom keys are too elevated for the owner to use without inconvenience. So, it's still a good idea to try models out if one can.

[jim stone]

That's helpful.

Obviously another matter is which flute you really want.
Olwells don't come with 8 keys, so they're out.
And so on. Also bucks. The Grinter 8-key costs
at least 3600 US dollars, the newer model over 4000.
And it's a Rudall--maybe one doesn't want a Rudall.
Also time it takes to get the flute.

Also it is probably not such a good idea for somebody
new to flutes to go for something vintage.

There seem to be a lot of issues that are more
important than whether a flute
has these two bottom keys. Again, if you're playing
ITM, you don't need them; indeed, you don't really
need any keys, generally. Of course if you're
coming from a classical or jazz background
things may be different.

About buying another 'expensive custom flute.'
If you buy a good 6 key odds are you can sell
it, possibly at a profit due to waiting lists, to fund
an 8 key if/when you want one. Good flutes
are something of an investment, they're not
like clothes or a vacation or lunch--money
gone forever. Anyway that's what I tell
my wife!

I think it's a good idea to know something about
how keyed flutes work and what they're like
before taking this step. It's not at all impossible
that a newish player may discover he/she
doesn't want keys at all. People post about
being dissapointed, useless clutter, blocks
in the way....

[Cubitt]

Jim,

Good point about where to rest the pinkie. I rest mine on the small block that separates the C# and C-nat keys. It is comfortable for me, supports the finger well, and leaves the pinkie centrally located to move to whatever key is wanted. Don't know what the options are on pin-mounted models.

[Alan]

I find I needn't brace my right little finger against anything though it took some time to train it to 'float'.

My main goal was to avoid the stiffness and slight numbness that was occurring in that finger from too much pressure against the flute. This happened on both keyed and keyless instruments.

The result is the discomfort gone and the finger ready for action.

[peeplj]

I use the E-flat key to actively vent most notes (except for E, which it makes very sharp, and of course D).

Perhaps this is a bad holdover from my Boehm system days?

It works well enough and where I put my pinky is really never an issue, because it's busy holding that key down!

In all seriousness, though, I have used the Rockstro grip for years and can hold the flute perfectly solidly with all fingers up using just the knuckle of the left hand first finger, the end of my right thumb, and my chin.

--James

[Denny]

I have used the Rockstro grip for years and can hold the flute perfectly solidly with all fingers up using just the knuckle of the left hand first finger, the end of my right thumb, and my chin.

those 3 points being what Boehm players use

[Cubitt]

I find I needn't brace my right little finger against anything though it took some time to train it to 'float'.

My main goal was to avoid the stiffness and slight numbness that was occurring in that finger from too much pressure against the flute. This happened on both keyed and keyless instruments.

The result is the discomfort gone and the finger ready for action.

I'm sure you know what you're doing, Alan, but I can't help but get a mental image of you playing "The Mason's Apron" faster and faster, with the flute gradually bouncing up and down until it looks like you're playing in a 7.5 earthquake. No need to do cuts or strikes, the flute simply comes up to meet your fingers, rather than the other way around.

[peeplj]

I have used the Rockstro grip for years and can hold the flute perfectly solidly with all fingers up using just the knuckle of the left hand first finger, the end of my right thumb, and my chin.

those 3 points being what Boehm players use

Some Boehm players...there are other grips used for the Boehm system besides Rockstro.

It's just the one that seems to work best for me, on either kind of flute.

--James