Cover charge?

[Caj]

So I want your opinion on a local matter.

I've been playing sessions in my town since I moved here, back when it was just two musicians, no listeners, and the venue was awful. Not fun at first, but these things take time and patience to gain momentum.

Since then, we've moved to much better surroundings and attracted more musicians. Most of this is through the efforts of the other musician who was there from the start; she made contact with local bars/cafes, maintained an email list etc. This other musician really manages the session, arranging dates etc.

Anyway, long story short: in a recent email she wrote that the session would now have a $5 cover charge for listeners. Half would go to the cafe, half to her.

I balked at this, because I've never heard of such a thing, that it woudn't be a session if you charged admission, and it just doesn't feel right. Other musician tells me she deserves financial compensation for all her time and effort.

This did not end nicely, because I basically said I wouldn't play anymore. There are other people and it will probably go on without me. This is not totally catastrophic because it's not the only opportunity to play---there is a kick-ass session an hour north of me, featuring some really fantastic people. I was just hoping we'd eventually grow a sesh that I could walk to from my house.

My questions:

1. Am I being unreasonable? I've never been a trad nazi, but I draw the line at someone charging admission. Is this just a hang-up on my part?
2. Have you ever encountered such a thing? I've never, but I've since been told that some people run sessions with a cover charge.

Caj

[djm]

I haven't been to Ireland, but I am told that there are gigs there that call themselves "sessions" but the musicians are getting paid, and you are not allowed to join in. Many people get the idea that a session is a free-for-all and that anyone can butt their way in, but even the most open session is really by invitation. You can attend, but you don't play unless invited to do so.

The idea of ITM "sessions" only started in the 50s, and in England by Irish musicians, so there is not too much that you can claim is "traditional" about sessions. The equivalent here would be a "jam session" (rock, jazz, etc.) and when we jam here its usually by invitation, not a free-for-all.

An open session is not a public entertainment. It happens in spite of the public, and relies on the good will of the bar owner. When someone starts charging money to play in public they become a professional musician playing for a fee.

If this is not the scene you want to be a part of, start your own session with the help of another bar owner and like-minded musicians. If there are not enough of you to do so, then the alternate session you mentioned is your next best option.

djm

[Jayhawk]

Hmmm - I've not come across this in an open session setting, and I'd tend to think if I'm paying a cover I'm expecting to hear a group not a bunch of friends gathering to play together.

Just how much work does "other" musician put into this each week? I maintain a bunch of email lists at work and sending out a reminder of when the session is, listing the time, etc. is not significant work. I'm sure making the bar contacts over the years has taken some work...but then again, we're not talking much work and not on a weekly basis.

For "other" musican to receive half the cover charge all to herself would imply there is no value to the music being played by the other musicians. I'd contemplate gathering the other musicians and see how they feel, and if they agree (either that there should be no charge or they should get a cut of the money) simply stage a walk out after you all have sat down and are ready to play if the "other" musician isn't willing to comply with the will of the session...leaving customers who have paid to hear you all in the lurch will require them to refund the money and also rethink what they're doing. Heck, if the weather is nice, you all could sit down outside and play on the sidewalk for a bit so the punters could hear you for free. Obviously, your session is drawing a bit of a crowd - otherwise I can't imagine they'd try to charge folks.

Rise up and stage your own Easter rebellion!

Eric

[Nanohedron]

Am I being unreasonable? I've never been a trad nazi, but I draw the line at someone charging admission. Is this just a hang-up on my part?

You have to live with your sense of right and wrong. I might well have done the same thing. Dunno how big a deal it is in the long run; and maybe the local ordinances list sessions as falling under "entertainment", in which case publicans can face extra fees. If the players and punters aren't buying enough, then, maybe...

Have you ever encountered such a thing? I've never, but I've since been told that some people run sessions with a cover charge.

Never heard of it 'til now.

[straycat82]

I'm with you, Caj. I think it is very unreasonable. While I don't knock or doubt the work that the girl has put into the session, if she's only in it for the money then she needs to start a band or something. What about the patrons that just come to the establishment regularly? Now they have to pay to come in and have a sandwich because there is a greedy musician there? Plus, five dollars is a bit steep I think. Most pubs here only charge five bucks to get in when there's a band playing on St. Pat's Day. A few of the pubs downtown by the colleges charge $5 covers regularly when there's a band but again, you are seeing an entertaining, rehearsed act.
Around here, there are a few folks who are paid by the pub to host the session... that, to me, is fair. Basically, these people are paid a small amount to guarantee their butts in the chair each week and they are usually well known among the community as a higher class of musician who play well and will keep the tunes going strong. We put out a tip jar too that sometimes ends up covering the bar tabs for the group. These folks also email the regulars if there's a holiday or something when nobody will be there, or if they are suggesting new tunes. The pub does not charge the patrons a fee to come in, whether they intend on listening or not.
While a session does probably draw business for the establishment, it is not a show for people to come and watch. It's for the musicians, IMO, to get together in community to play and share their music... at least that is the current state of the American pub session. Tell the girl to set out a tip jar and the people will tell her if her playing is worth paying for or not.

[Nanohedron]

On re-reading, I'm afraid I'd be outta there until things changed.

[BigDavy]

Cover charge = gig not session.

If the punters are being charged to listen to you play, then you are entitled to your cut Caj, as are the other musicians. The punters are also entitled to a decent standard of play and rehersal for thier money, busking it when they are paying for it is not right.

If she is hogging the money, then she should play a solo gig by herself.

David

[Jayhawk]

The tip jar is possibly a nice little solution - half the tips to the owner 1/2 to the players...note I said players not just the person who organized the session. I'd expect a serious explanation with regards to what work she does on a weekly basis that would require renumeration beyond what cut the other players get. From what I've seen of our local session scene, once you have a regular site, date & time there is little work.

Eric

[Redwolf]

The tip jar is possibly a nice little solution - half the tips to the owner 1/2 to the players...note I said players not just the person who organized the session. I'd expect a serious explanation with regards to what work she does on a weekly basis that would require renumeration beyond what cut the other players get. From what I've seen of our local session scene, once you have a regular site, date & time there is little work.

Eric

I was just going to suggest that! A tip jar, while maybe not traditional for Irish sessions, is a common enough thing in bar and lounge entertainment that patrons probably wouldn't resent it, and probably would tip.

But I also agree that, if money changes hands,whether it's through a cover charge or a tip jar, it should be evenly distributed among the musicians. I agree too that, if the session organizer wants compensation, she needs to start a band. I've helped organize sessions before and, frankly, it's no big deal...a few emails, a chat with the bar owner, maybe asking local publications to carry the announcement (which can also be done via email). And that's typically a one-time thing...after that, it's just a matter of being the contact person for both the musicians and the bar owner. There's no way she deserves half the cover!

As a patron, I probably wouldn't continue to patronize a pub that charged a cover during the time a session is playing. I can understand the pub requiring a minimum purchase...that's not unusual. In our session, we also ask that session musicians order something, even if it's only a Coke. But I see a cover charge as something subtly different. You pay a cover if you're going to see a stage performance or if you're going to a bar to dance, sure...but a session is a different category, I think. People don't typically visit a pub JUST to hear the session...they go for a drink, maybe a bite to eat, perhaps some darts or pool. The session is more of a extra from the owner's standpoint...background music that provides atmosphere and may encourage patrons to stay a little longer (and maybe buy a few more drinks).

Redwolf

[straycat82]

...once you have a regular site, date & time there is little work.

Indeed. She seems to have an over-inflated sense of the value of her time.

[Nanohedron]

Every now and then someone leaves a tip on the session table. To divvy it up would be laughably parsimonious, so it always goes to the waitron.

[Caj]

I should point out that I don't feel entitled to any money, and if we get some money (e.g. a tip) I don't care where it goes, or how it's divided.

In the past we've gotten tips, and nobody has minded the organizer having it; she's always offered us a cut, and the rest of us said, "no, you take it." I think that's fine. None of us are the type to obsess over whether a distribution of money is equitable---whoever wants it can have it.

What I care about is whether someone is being charged. That is what gives me a sense of obligation, and turns the other people in the establishment into an "audience."

Caj

[Nanohedron]

I think a cover charge to listen to a session is not a good thing. A session is supposed to be a social occasion, not a performance as such.

[Jayhawk]

Caj - personally, I'd never expect or want pay for playing in a session. However, I wouldn't mind a free beer now and then!

Overall, if there is a cover, you're a band - plain and simple in my eyes. If you're a band, you all should get paid - that's the nature of a band. I've never met a jazz musician (I'm from KC - gotta go with what's our native genre) who wouldn't agree with this assessment - the money making jazz band I played in in the 80s never played for free unless it was a charity event, and all the musicians were paid not just the band leader (although an extra cut went to him through our general band fund).

Bands make money as well as music, sessions are for the music and fun and never the twain should meet.

Eric

[Caj]

The tip jar is possibly a nice little solution - half the tips to the owner 1/2 to the players...note I said players not just the person who organized the session. I'd expect a serious explanation with regards to what work she does on a weekly basis that would require renumeration beyond what cut the other players get.

I just want to emphasize that the organizer is not trying to cheat anyone or hog money or such. As I said before, we've gotten tips in the past, and she's offered us a fair cut, and we've simply declined. Plus, I'm sure that if anyone really complained, she'd be happy to split things---if not equally, at least according to need.

My only beef is charging money in the first place, which doesn't make me feel comfortable. I don't want people to be charged money to hear me play, because I am not really providing a "performance" in exchange.

Plus it is (was?) a session, and charging people for a session seems ... well, not just untraditional, but a violation of the tradition.

This is part of the reason I'm curious if anyone's encountered a listener cover in real life before. It seems to directly contradict everything I know about trad music, and I want to know if I'm just ignorant.

Caj