In need of sight reading advice

[Flutered]

You're quite correct John - Corky doesn't say what sort of music he wants to play at speed off the page. I suppose we all interpret this sort of topic in light of of own musical preferences and the majority of Irish trad players would tend to learn by ear as much as anything. They'll fall back on written notes as an aide memoir if no one else is around to remind them 'how it goes'. That's my observation. I would also observe that most contributions on these pages relate to wooden flutes, played in Irish trad. style but I could be wrong there. Anyway the salient point I would have thought is that the abilty to read music (dots or ABC) is useful but the ability to sight read and play at 'normal' tempo is pretty pointless in an ITM context.

[pkev]

Hi there,

I do think that Fyffers post on this subject really hits the mark with this thread. Learn the tune by ear, give it some thought, inflection, understanding and comprehension. The end result one is hopefully trying to achieve, is good traditional music.

Learn a tune through notation, (you are still learning by ear anyway), give it some thought, inflection, understanding and comprehension.
The end result one is hopefully trying to achieve, is good traditional music.

How quickly one achieves that is another question, and that could be down to confidence, ability, discipline and such like. These attributes or skills however should not to be mistaken for ego, rather they are simply the result of the learning process.

Everybody accepts that learning music is a lifetime experience so they should embrace it and through practice they will gain that confidence, ability and discipline. I do also think people can be too hard on themselves regarding their own abilities. Constantly downing oneself with comments like `my playing is crap compared to yours` doesn't entirely install confidence does it. On the other hand people might use this kind of comment cos they are scared of being accused of having an ego.

Call it what you will, `confident attitude`, `belief in ones ability`, `EGO`all musicians should have one in abundance!

Apologies for rambling a bit but it is an interesting subject

Cheers
pkev

[John Gribble]

Cork wrote:

As the matter, and the blunt truth be told, despite long exposure to the reading of music script, I simply have never been able to develop the ability to read music quickly, as to sight read. Oh, I can hack my way through just about anything, but I just can't seem to do so at anywhere near the speed I really would like to. So, seeing as how I am in the company of musicians, and flute playing musicians at that, I thought I would put this matter out to each and all of you, please.



The question that Cork’s original post left me with is, what are his goals/expectations? Are they realistic?

Does he expect to play at sight a piece at an acceptable performance level after one or two passes through it? Except for very simple tunes, this is unrealistic. After all, an orchestral player or choral singer doesn’t arrive at a concert hall a half hour before a performance, tune and/or warm up, take his or her position, get passed a new piece of music, and play or sing it well in front of an audience the first time through. The musician has to do the “woodshedding,” study and practice on his or her own, and rehearse the music with the orchestra or group, along with possible practice sessions in sections. Yes, those musicians are reading music, but they already know it darned well.

Probably the most demanding sight-reading work for a professional musician is commercial recording. (ie. film scores, commercial jingles, popular music arrangements, etc.). There one does not have the luxury of practice or rehearsal. Those players “playing” the music before they ever touch their instruments or sing a note. They look at the music and begin mentally playing through it, learning, identifying problems and making decisions.

Taking their lead (and please understand I’m nowhere close to playing in that league!) I find a little time spent “pre-reading” a piece pays off handsomely. Here are some things I’ve found useful.

1. First things first. What’s the time signature? What key is it in? Is it major or minor? What note appears to provide the basic rhythmic pulse? The quarter? The eighth? This leads to:

2. Reading the rhythms. Most folk tunes, classical pieces and popular melodies have one, two or three reoccurring rhythm patterns. Identify and enter into to them. They are the heartbeat of the piece.

3. Trace the shape of the tune. Does the melody repeat? If so, is it an exact repetition? Where are the lowest and highest notes? Are they going to be a problem? Where are the rhythm patterns discovered earlier? Are they constant? Where and how does the piece move away from them?

4. Find the trouble spots. Accidentals. An odd rhythmic figure. An especially fast passage. An awkward fingering. A tricky jump. Knowing where the “landmines” lie really helps with getting past them in a new piece.

Now I’m ready to play. If I behave like a responsible adult, I go through it at a speed slow enough I can manage to play the most difficult passages on beat. Here I have to confess that I rarely act like a responsible adult. But after almost forty years of music-making, I am getting better at it (playing slowly, that is).

Developing the ability to sight-read music well is not an easy task. There’s a whole layer of cognitive activity added to the music-making beyond the neuromuscular challenges and the monitoring we do with our ears. That’s why for most of us real mastery of a piece of music comes after we’ve memorized it. That said, there’s real pleasure in an evening spent in sight-reading through a new book of tunes or a score we’re only vaguely familiar with.

[Cork]

Here I am, a day later, just to see what my original post could have inspired.

To be honest, I am all but overwhelmed.

To know just when to keep one's mouth shut could be a blessing, so, that said, let me thank you, so very, very much, to each and to all!!

[Flutered]

Ah get outa that Corks! Let us know what sort of music you want to sight read at playing tempo on the flute. We're dying to know. You need to clarify your request

I should add that I enjoyed John's comments above about classical musicians playing off the page but knowing the music they're playing inside out. So why do they have the scores in front of them? As an aide memoir - a sort of autocue perhaps or is it just to impress the punters? I'm sure someone here can elucidate.

[KateG]

I should add that I enjoyed John's comments above about classical musicians playing off the page but knowing the music they're playing inside out. So why do they have the scores in front of them? As an aide memoir - a sort of autocue perhaps or is it just to impress the punters? I'm sure someone here can elucidate.

To answer your question about classical musicians. Soloists always memorize their music and play without it. In ensemble work, the music is there as a memory aid. Remember, many of the pieces, not to mention whole concerts, are LONG, and the music is often harmonically and rhymically complex, so that an individual part may be doing something counterintuitive to the sense of the whole piece. The sheet music also serves as a place keeper, particularly during rehearsals. It's one thing for a bunch of us trad types to say "let's play the B part again, and but this time I'll play my part on the flute rather than the whistle" but when you're playing a 1/2 hour symphony you need reference points if you're going stop and restart it to work out the sticky bits.

[Caroluna]

I'm using software called Alfred's Interactive Musician

http://www.lentine.com/85809.htm?parentid=355

and it really seems to be helping. I've struggled with sightreading
for years! ....you need a MIDI keyboard to do some of the exercises.
I bet there's also software available that doesn't require MIDI.

[Flutered]

Thanks Kate,
yes, I'm always impressed by solo pianists/ string players whatever, who play long and complicated pieces from memory.. I guess the score music would just be a distraction for them. But I suppose too in ensemble work that if a group practised together often enough - then they'd know when to join in or otherwise. I suppose it's a question of time to work together.
Then there's yer man, waving the stick around - how do they be keeping an eye on him and the notes at the same time. I know s/he is supposed to be holding the group together and dictating the tempo and rhythm etc. but there's an element of showmanship as well perhaps. Why not just let the musicians play the piece together by listening to each other, like in a trad. session? I suppose that't be a bit subversive but then that's what those chamber groups do, I think.

[mutepointe]

1. to answer the original question:
just keep practicing reading sheet music, you'll get better.
2. to add my two cents to the sheet music debate:
i am a sheet music reader way back and am now learning to play by ear. that's a talent i would like to develop as well as my sight reading skills. i don't understand the folks who are anti-sheet music. that's like being proud of illiteracy.
3. i play in an ensemble. we work very hard at sharing leadership and building on each other's skills and talents and recognizing that you have to pay your dues. some folks have fit in. some folks haven't.

[Jumbuk]

Lest readers think I am being too negative about sight-reading, let me add my own tip:

Back when I was first learning classical guitar, after a few lessons I got to the point where I could play a number of tunes (with the music), but I had to hunt for the notes in any new tune. I realised then that playing the same tunes over and over was not going to improve my reading, so I found a book of simple tunes (melody only) - hundreds of them - and just went through and tried to play them one after the other. My aim was not to learn the tunes, but to keep confronting myself with new tunes I had never tried to play before. It worked well - within a few days I had a reasonable knowledge of the fingerboard.

You could do the same with ITM using a book like O'Neill's.

[Cork]

Ah get outa that Corks! Let us know what sort of music you want to sight read at playing tempo on the flute. We're dying to know. You need to clarify your request :)...

In response, let me hereby declare that it never was my intention to be coy, or to be evasive.

However, in the light that this is a Chiff & Fipple thread, perhaps one could be FLAMED at any mention of music other than ITM, or thereabouts.

:-)

[Flutered]

Ah no, Cork! Sure, I've a head like a sewer as I suspect do many other people here If I hear any old ditty on the radio/ TV/ CD wherever, I find myself humming or whistling it and then have to pick up a whistle /flute and see if it'll come out. I think there are people here who play baroque and classical and so on.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

[

However, in the light that this is a Chiff & Fipple thread, perhaps one could be FLAMED at any mention of music other than ITM, or thereabouts.

Oh, come now

M

[Cork]

Actually, I am a fan of Baroque music, and although I have played it on a one-key flute, I enjoy the music much more when I use a Boehm system.

However, that was not so much in my thoughts when I started this thread. Actually, I simply had all-purpose, generic capability in mind. (And, with so many diatonic ITM fans around here, perhaps one could do well to more quietly refer to radical ideas such as chromatic instruments.)

I also enjoy ITM, as music, of course, but also in part as a sport. It's a matter of learning how to walk first, and then learning how to run. As the sport, how fast can I do this AND have it sound good? I play on a modern, keyless Irish flute, and have no interest in playing it on a Boehm flute.

Let me add, that this thread has been an education, and my thanks to all!!

[mutepointe]

Lest readers think I am being too negative about sight-reading, let me add my own tip:

Back when I was first learning classical guitar, after a few lessons I got to the point where I could play a number of tunes (with the music), but I had to hunt for the notes in any new tune. I realised then that playing the same tunes over and over was not going to improve my reading, so I found a book of simple tunes (melody only) - hundreds of them - and just went through and tried to play them one after the other. My aim was not to learn the tunes, but to keep confronting myself with new tunes I had never tried to play before. It worked well - within a few days I had a reasonable knowledge of the fingerboard.

You could do the same with ITM using a book like O'Neill's.

jumbuk is right about learning to read lots and lots of songs. i never considered that i did that too.