How best to play e rolls?

[billcoulter]

Hello flute people,

There seems to be several approaches to e rolls, some cut with the 1st finger RH, some with the middle finger LH. What seems to be the most used method? I think I like the sound of the cut with the 1st finger RH, but is seems much more difficult. Also is it best to lift the RH pinky off the flute in order to execute the tap? Do people use different fingerings for low and high octave e rolls? Advice?

Thanks

[Matt_Celta]

Hello flute people,

There seems to be several approaches to e rolls, some cut with the 1st finger RH, some with the middle finger LH. What seems to be the most used method? I think I like the sound of the cut with the 1st finger RH, but is seems much more difficult. Also is it best to lift the RH pinky off the flute in order to execute the tap? Do people use different fingerings for low and high octave e rolls? Advice?

Thanks

Hi! I use the 3rd finger LH to cut. It sounds ok for me but I'll try those options you mentioned. About the pinky, I think it's very difficult not to lift it to execute the tap... lifting it makes it easier to lift your 3rd finger RH (ring finger).

I use the same fingering for low and high registers.

Cheers!

[peeplj]

I also use L3 to cut; it's a given you have to use R3 to tap, I would think.

I think the best way to get a good solid E roll is to practice it very slowly and evenly and only gradually increase speed.

Playing it faster than you can play it cleanly is a mistake--trust me that I know!

--James

[Jumbuk]

Glad you asked this question - I have been planning to raise it myself.

For a while, I persisted with R1 for the cut. I recently accidentally used L3 and found it much crisper and more of a proper roll than a classical "turn". I am pretty much using L3 all the time now (bear in mind I have less than 2 years experience with the flute, so I am learning as I go).

I have trouble with R3 for the tap (although there no alternative!). I have to lift my pinky as well, but when I put it back down I sometimes shift the flute a bit. Just needs more practice I guess.

[billcoulter]

Thanks for the thoughts all. Yes I think the LH3 cut on e is the way to go. I know that Grey Larsen suggests the RH1 cut and he is a very accomplished player so I'll give it a try as well. I suppose being able to do either would be best depending on the situation. Does anyone have a good tune suggestion for e rolls - maybe a tune that has e rolls in both octaves?

[Guinness]

Like most, T3 cut and B3 tap for both registers.

I normally anchor the flute with my RH pinky (I play RH). The pinky comes off during the E roll.

It may also help slightly to provide more support of the flute with the RH thumb at the moment of the roll. The idea being to minimize any disturbance to the embouchure.

BTW, love your guitar playing

[Slayer]

Hi
When I played on whistle used a way
= xxx xxo
= xxO xxo
= xxx xxo
= xxx xxx
= xxx xxo

But when I began a flute, has noticed, that the cut sounds is very weak

It was necessary to be retrained to way:
o xxx xxo
o xxx Oxo
o xxx xxo
o xxx xxx
o xxx xxo

A lot of time was required, but now it works well.

[Matt_Paris]

We had a discussion a while ago about that: in Grey Larsen's book, he tells the cut should be done with the note immediately above, so for E:

xxx xxo
xxx xoo
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
xxx xxo

But the general answer was "do what you like and forget about books"

I personnaly cut all the notes under G with the LH3, like I was tought by my teacher ten years ago, and like Matt Molloy does

[phcook]

Correction: Grey suggests cutting e with B1 (page118), for he thinks the best way is to keep covered the lowest covered hole.

xxx xxo
xxx oxo

But the finale rule is given by Matt: do what you like... and what fits you the best, physically speaking.

[cocusflute]

E rolls are best practiced on your own, and not in sessions. Unless it is very crisp, an E roll sounds muddy and gets in the way of the rhythm. Harry Bradley teaches that it is possible -- and often preferable -- to ornament with just the breath.
It's as important to know when not to play a roll as to know how to do it properly. It's always better to play cleanly, without ornamentation and with good rhythm, then it is to add fuzzy embellishments to a tune.

[Jumbuk]

Does anyone have a good tune suggestion for e rolls - maybe a tune that has e rolls in both octaves?

I have been working on Morrison's jig and Rolling in the Barrel - lower octave riolls only.

[Flutered]

The Boys of Tandaragee is a good one for e and b rolls. I think there's a nice version on one the Wooden Flute Obsession CD's 1 or 2.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

E rolls are best practiced on your own, and not in sessions. Unless it is very crisp, an E roll sounds muddy and gets in the way of the rhythm. Harry Bradley teaches that it is possible -- and often preferable -- to ornament with just the breath.
It's as important to know when not to play a roll as to know how to do it properly. It's always better to play cleanly, without ornamentation and with good rhythm, then it is to add fuzzy embellishments to a tune.

Actually, that seems like the best advice of all.....

M

[Matt_Celta]

While lifting your pinky (with your R3 of course) you also have to be carefull with the Eb key, if you have one!

[Skyeward]

I'll chime in here because I've been thinking about this a lot in the last few weeks.

Does anyone know how Matt Molloy does cuts and rolls on G and A?
How are other people cutting G and A?


A couple months ago I got Grey Larsen's book (as I'm just starting on flute), and realized that in my years whistle playing (with no teacher) I learned to use T3 for all cuts G-D, T2 for A, and T1 for B. Just seemed natural I guess.

So that has me doing only two cuts (F# and B) like Grey suggests. He says that doing the cuts his way makes them clearer and more responsive. I'm just not sure, because of course what I'm used to sounds better right now! Hard to emulate years of practice just to check and see.

I suppose it probably matters more how snappy you can be in whacking those holes than which hole you actually whack. A sloppy cut is will always be a sloppy cut.