Let's Clear the Chiff Once and For All

vaporlock · Post by **vaporlock** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:15 pm

I thought we had this Chiff thing all worked out a while back. We even have a picture of chiff captured with a spectrum analyser. Here is a link to the thread:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 14&forum=1

And here is a picture of chiff

I picture is worth a thousand words.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:05 pm

On 2002-10-11 16:15, vaporlock wrote:
I picture is worth a thousand words.

Especially pictures of certain Italian ex-MPs. Anyone?

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:37 pm

On 2002-10-11 09:55, dkehoe wrote:
I agree completely with those that define chiff as the organ pipe people do - the attack noise. I disagree completely with those that think that somehow a whistle is different than an organ pipe (but respect their right to do so). Yea, a whistle has holes in it. Yea, a whistle player doesn't attack every note. Yea, a whistle has ugly diamonds painted on it. But the mechanism for producing sound is exactly the same. The biggest difference between a pipe and a whistle is scale (one's big, the other's not).

I do respectfully disagree, and only because of the attacking part. I wouldn't say most whistlers don't attack every note, I would say they seldom attack a note at all, if you're talking about tonguing a note. In that case, talking about the chiff of a whistle being the attack of a note is kind of like talking about the chiff of an organ in the third beat of a whole note. Even if you're talking about whistlers who tongue many or most notes (and I have nothing against that), there are many ways to tongue a note, and not all people do it the same, nor consistently. Whereas, on a particular organ, with particular stops out, the chiff is going to be consistent.

If you're just talking about the beginning of any particular note, then the chiff has more to do with whether the note is cut, tapped, slurred, tongued, blown right after a breath, or any number of other things.

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:47 pm

I haven't played all of those listed above, but seems like the hoover is left off. did i just miss it in this thread?

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:55 pm

On 2002-10-11 17:47, tomcat wrote:

seems like the hoover is left off. did i just miss it in this thread?

I don't know, but on the chiff readout it is the first one on the left, the one with very little chiff.

vaporlock · Post by **vaporlock** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:06 pm

On 2002-10-11 17:05, Bloomfield wrote:
On 2002-10-11 16:15, vaporlock wrote:
I picture is worth a thousand words.
Especially pictures of certain Italian ex-MPs. Anyone?

Huh?

Tomcat, are you speaking of the low G Hoover? The above picture show all sop D's. I have a picture of the Hoover low G side by side with a Dixon and Burke, both in low G, if you'd like to see it.

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:36 pm

On 2002-10-11 15:42, madguy wrote:
Tony, my Abell blackwood D has quite a bit of chiff, too. Guess it's just me, but I find myself preferring different whistles depending upon my moods. A little down? Then I gotta play my Abell!

As an aside, is it Abell (with a short A) or Abell(with a long A)? Just curious...

He inscribes a bell motif on the ring, so I figure his name is pronounced A-bell. Short or long A? No idea. Never thought to ask.

Ah, yes. The tone of the whistle. Mmmmmm...sigh. It has a dark, smoky(?) sound, mysterious and full of soul. It really doesn't come through on crummy computer mic recordings. I did hear a good recording recently a friend did w/ good mics and I thought, wow, that does sound good. It definitely sounds good in front of your face. For people bummed out because O'Riordan's are so hard to get: get over it. Get an Abell. Ain't nothin like it. (They're not for everyone. There's a serious player on this board who doesn't like hers at all. Go figure. And there's the purist Generation crowd. Don't mind them.)
Tony

Teri-K · Post by **Teri-K** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:00 pm

On 2002-10-11 19:36, TonyHiggins wrote:
There's a serious player on this board who doesn't like hers at all. Go figure. And there's the purist Generation crowd. Don't mind them.)
Tony

Don't mind us, but you gotta love us

Or not

Teri

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:13 pm

Ok, you guys, just answer my question will ya - Where does the Copeland rank on the chiff scale?

Regards,

Philo

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 10:59 pm

Vapor, can you post the picture of the g's? I'd love to see it . . . Walden, sorry about my earlier post about Hoover's being left off...i got interupted in the middle of posting and vapor posted the picture during the interim (or at least i think that's what happened . . . uh, er, it makes a good story)

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:56 am

On 2002-10-12 00:59, tomcat wrote:
...i got interupted in the middle of posting and vapor posted the picture during the interim

Yeah, that must be it.

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:13 am

On 2002-10-11 20:13, PhilO wrote:
Ok, you guys, just answer my question will ya - Where does the Copeland rank on the chiff scale?

Regards,

Philo

Philo, this is just from my own experience, but I'd rate Copeland soprano whistles on the low end of the chiff spectrum. I have a brass and a nickel soprano D and both have very little to no chiff at all. The nickel is one of the purest, most clear whistles I own.

~Larry

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:51 am

Don't mind us, but you gotta love us
Teri

I can't believe I left that part out. I must've been in a rush. Mea culpa.

(Actually, it goes without saying! I retract my mea culpa.)
Tony

_________________
<a href="http://nwparalegal.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm">Clips and Snips Tunes</a>
Don't believe everything you think.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TonyHiggins on 2002-10-12 13:52 ]</font>

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:22 am

Am I wrong finding that the definition of "chiff" here still remains quite different from that of pipe-organ builders ?

Or am I mislead by things like :
http://www.ibiblio.org/pipeorgan/Pages/ ... y.html#C-D
?

I wish Michael Copeland would give us his definition of "chiff", since he seems one of the few with both organ and whistle building experiences.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:47 am

On 2002-10-10 19:12, madguy wrote:

jim stone has given us the most eloquent and basic explanation of all, stating that, in it's basic form, a tin whistle is a pipe - thus, in whistling, "chiff" is nothing more than the breathy (CH) sound when you attck (start) a note.

It's all that simple!

'Chiff' is also a word used by designers of synth patches. I have a Kawai and checked out the chiff patch. There's nothing of interest in the attack at all. The sound is just a very fuzzy, furry tone, something like an organ and something like a whistle.