Learning by ear

[Stellatum]

Right! That way I don't have to miss my favorite tv show.

By the way, this Saturday's eclipse is a very unusual one: the eclipsed moon, at least for those of us in the Eastern American time zone, will be rising already eclipsed, eerily red.

I intend to play that reel to the rising eclipsed moon, if I can manage to learn it.

OK, back to playing by ear: following a link from this thread, I read that learning by ear is different from learning by finger-feel (kinesthetically). I find that for tricky parts, I am still saying to myself "remember, you have to go all the way down to the D on this part..." I guess that must be normal for a recovering dot-reader.

One thing I am already noticing about learning by ear is that the tune feels like a real treasure when you acquire it that way.

[colomon]

On Michael Eskin's site, the first video under "backup" http://www.tradlessons.com/?cat=18
has a beautiful piped reel, which is unnamed. Since I don't know the name (SHH! DON'T TELL ME!) I can't go looking it up on thesession.org, so I am trying for the first time to learn a tune completely by ear.

For what it's worth, you might find that it is much easier to start with a nice polka rather than a reel. I think reels are generally the hardest sort of common Irish tunes to pick up by ear. (Just as a point of comparison -- it took me a couple of months to fully crack the five-part reel "Lord Gordon's" by ear late last year. It took me all of 45 minutes to pick up a five-part jig earlier this week -- even though I'd listened to "Lord Gordon's" perhaps three times as often as I'd heard the jig.)

BTW, if you're talking about the video "Drop D Guitar Reel Backup in E Dorian", that's an absolutely classic reel....

[Denny]

But learning it by hearing it is a really painstaking process for me--I keep setting the video back to hear the same five-note phrase over.

Sucks don't it!

I hope that eventually I'll get better at this.

If you keep tryin' you will.

If you keep reading music you will get better at reading music.
The ear to finger thing is like that too.

[bubbledragon]

So I followed a link provided earlier that mentioned bringing a tape recorder to sessions.

Is this generally approved of? I can't find my little memo recorder with cassette tapes from the "days of aulde" anymore, but I do have a recorder for my iPod... especially nice, since I can play with the speed in various programs without distortion (as you know.)

Of course I'll ask there first, but do you think most sessions would allow me to record so that I could listen to the music later... slower? I wouldn't dare publish it or anything without everyone's approval - I'm sure that would make people a bit self conscious. This would be for me, or any of them what would want it!

[colomon]

Absolutely. It is certainly polite to ask first before recording. But odds are they will say yes, recording Irish sessions is very common.

[Jennie]

I've found that "working" on tunes doesn't make them come any quicker; rather the opposite, in fact. The ones that are in my solid repertory are tunes that I have on the CDs that play in my car. I don't get much news that way, and my kids sometimes request other listening material, but I sure have lots of tunes in my head!

If you're somewhere you can just have the music playing, especially while you're doing something else, those notes sometimes sneak in the back door of your brain.

Jennie

[okewhistle]

Soemthing I have found helpful is to just write down the first couple of bars of each section of the tune. It's getting started I struggle with.

I can take my "little red book" into sessions with me without looking stupid and it means I am less worried about blasting out completely the wrong notes when I try to join in.

[Stellatum]

OK, so I decided I would learn the reel (first one at http://www.tradlessons.com/?cat=18 ) by ear, but there was one phrase I just couldn't get for the life of me. So despite my resolve, I went and dug up the dots on thesession.org, which lets you search by musical phrase (it's a lot faster if you know the mode, too). The reel is the Tarbolton.

Well, the dots didn't help, because Michael Eskin's version is slightly different, mostly at the very phrase I was having trouble with. And of course his version sounds much better to me.

So I listened to the phrase sixty or seventy more times, and I got it. I am very proud of myself.

I'm sure that's fascinating to all you old-timers. Still, I figure it's better to bore people who love the whistle than to really bore my friends and family, who barely tolerate it.

[crookedtune]

So I listened to the phrase sixty or seventy more times, and I got it. I am very proud of myself.

Excellent! And you should be proud. Also, be encouraged by the fact that learning by ear is an acquired skill, and you'll improve at it rapidly with practice. Also, count your blessings for having the benefit of modern technology to help you repeat those phrases. (I thought it was hard using vinyl records, but imagine how it was for the generations before, who had no recording technology at all! )

[Stellatum]

Also, count your blessings for having the benefit of modern technology to help you repeat those phrases.

Yes.

I read somewhere that most whistlers will be happy to repeat a tune for a beginner ad nauseum, until he gets it into his head, and it cracked me up, because I often find myself so taken with a tune that it never wears out, at least to my ear. My family might dispute that.

My dog, by the way (lab) often comes and puts his head on my lap while I'm playing. I would have thought he'd mind the high notes.

[bjs]

I find learning a tune by starting at the end helps. I assume only the dots available. So you play the last two bars over and over til the tune is in your head without consciously noticing where the fingers are placed. Now that the tune is in your head and to some extent in the fingers play without looking. That's playing by ear now. Repeat with next to last two bars and then put it together. Big advantage: when putting it together the newest bit is played first so is less likely to be forgotten.

There are many programs for improving ears. No idea which ones are any good.

[DreamOgreen]

Playing by ear is a great skill to have with a long tradition behind it..... If that is how you wish to play. I personally enjoy playing whistles while reading music. I enjoy the challenge of getting a "feel" for how a tune should sound while having the music to be able to sound "decent" while getting there. If you aren't planning on attending any really traditional "sessions", what does it matter how you learn to play your instrument?

[colomon]

Well, the dots didn't help, because Michael Eskin's version is slightly different, mostly at the very phrase I was having trouble with. And of course his version sounds much better to me.

And that, in a nutshell, is the story of using thesession.org (and tunebooks in general) to try to learn tunes. Once you get going at Irish music, usually you want to learn a particular version of a tune -- the one your musical idol plays, the one on the cool recording, the one they play at your local session, or whatever. And nine times out of ten, the notation you can find doesn't match the version you want to learn. You end up learning by ear almost out of self-defense.

[burnsbyrne]

I've been playing the whistle for several weeks, mostly using Larsen's book and CDs. My background is in classic/flamenco guitar (years ago) and clarinet (many, many years ago). I'm retired, 63, and discovered the whistle makes the kind of music I've always loved (thought it was from a recorder!)

I just have a tough time memorizing tunes without looking at the sheet music. I know there're no magic pills, but someone may have some helpful suggestions.

I'm also looking for sad, or contemplative laments, aires etc. with slides to help develop expression. I love Lament for Fred Finn. Others?

Thanks- I love the help this forum provides.
Paul

Paul,
Hello from a fellow former-flamenco/classical guitarist. I had to quit after a wrist injury. I took up the whistle to treat my music withdrawal pains after I finally admitted to myself that I wasn't going to be able to play for a half hour performance, let alone 2.5 hours straight of dance classes.
This is my two cents about the ear/dots subject: I use both. I never was a great sight reader anyway. I listen to recordins of tunes and use the sheet music as a way to jog my memory. I also begin memorising a tune right from the beginning. I don't wait until I can play it well. I have learned lots of flamenco falsetas the same way and I'm sure you have too. I think the most important part of all this is you can't forget the listening part of the process. There is a lot in Irish music that doesn't translate to sheet music - it's the same in flamenco. Those little hesitations or increases in tempo can't be notated.
Well, that's my advice. Good luck and keep playing. BTW I'm 55.
Mike

[A-Musing]

I've learned by ear, by written music, by memory, by osmosis...by golly.

And...Jennie...I've learned by tunes sneaking in the back door of my mind...if they can get past some of the unsavory characters hanging out back there.

If ye want to get there...ye will.