should i get keys?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:35 pm

Denny wrote:I use the one on the side...

I never get anything right

Well, I don't know about your crowd, but mine would be good for it even if I stuck it in a back loop. Tossers....

KateG · Post by **KateG** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:17 pm

I'll confess that I love having all eight keys. I love ITM, but there's a whole world out there waiting to be explored: classical, ragtime, old time.... I couldn't imagine giving up a single key, I use them all. And the low C & C# let me follow the fiddles down below the staff on occasions, which is fun. So I'd say go for it, and if you're gonna do it, go whole hog and get all 8. If you find the E flat key gets in your way, you can always rotate the foot joint, but you'll probably get used to it.

hans · Post by **hans** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:07 pm

KateG wrote:I'll confess that I love having all eight keys. I love ITM, but there's a whole world out there waiting to be explored: classical, ragtime, old time.... I couldn't imagine giving up a single key, I use them all. And the low C & C# let me follow the fiddles down below the staff on occasions, which is fun. So I'd say go for it, and if you're gonna do it, go whole hog and get all 8. If you find the E flat key gets in your way, you can always rotate the foot joint, but you'll probably get used to it.

I totally agree with you Kate. And there is Scottish trad and early Scottish, English, Israeli and all kinds of wonderful Balkan dance music to explore, apart from a lot of Irish airs not in D and G. So get the full ship if you can afford it, and pester the maker to make it as ergonomic for you as he can. Especially the G# key is traditionally very poorly designed on wooden flutes from English traditional design, and hard to use.

~Hans

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:26 pm

Nanohedron wrote:I love my keys. I even use them. But the indisputable argument in favor of them is that they keep your flute from rolling off of the table.

Honestly, when I read this I managed to wet the screen in front of me with a bit of the tea I am drinking. LOL!!

Let me admit, that I have feet in at least two camps. For instance, to my right is a modern, keyless Irish flute, with a medium sized embouchure, and to my left is a Boehm flute.

Maybe there was a time when the sun came up in the East, set in the West, and the world was happy without keyed flutes.

Go for the Keys!!

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:50 pm

BTW, rh, if you do go for the keys, and then find yourself in a chromatic world, you may want to have a good book of scalar practise.

To that end, the work of Taffanel and Gaubert (of the French school) has been THE reference of Boehm system players, for many, many years.

However, a few years ago I got a copy of Exercices (yes, that is the spelling), by Fernand Gillet, which, frankly, leaves the other text in the dust. ISBN: 0971700419

I got my copy at Falls House Press.

http://www.fallshousepress.com

The news gets better, moreover, as the principles employed in the text are virtually universal, and could be applied to just about any chromatic instrument, a GREAT text!!

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:19 pm

Keys. Oh yeah. It's astounding how many people like to play in F, Bb, and A. I tend to work around the lowest 2 semitones (clanky pewter and shoddy embouchure) so a 6-key seems perfect to me. Actually, a 7-key with a long Bb would rock, but I'm just dreaming.

My old 4-key kept me entertained for quite a while til I got a decent 8-key.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:51 am

Cork wrote:BTW, rh, if you do go for the keys, and then find yourself in a chromatic world, you may want to have a good book of scalar practise.

To that end, the work of Taffanel and Gaubert (of the French school) has been THE reference of Boehm system players, for many, many years.

However, a few years ago I got a copy of Exercices (yes, that is the spelling), by Fernand Gillet, which, frankly, leaves the other text in the dust. ISBN: 0971700419

I got my copy at Falls House Press.

http://www.fallshousepress.com

The news gets better, moreover, as the principles employed in the text are virtually universal, and could be applied to just about any chromatic instrument, a GREAT text!!

Cork, we need to clarify, here. Going for keys doesn't necessarily mean going Boehm. My flute, a trad timber flute, is "keyed" but still simple-system; IOW the base diatonic scale is still unkeyed; the keys are for c, Bb, G#, Fnat (2 o' dem puppies), Eb, C#, and Cnat. In this forum there's a tendency to presuppose simple-system flutes, actually, whether keyed or unkeyed, as that specialty item of the Western flute world has been the thrust, here, from the start.

Not being a Boehm player, if I remember my hearsay correctly, Boehm fingerings have some real differences from keyed simple-system, and so a Boehm instructional wouldn't be of much help except to a Boehm player. But your recommendations are helpful to those here who are, of course, and thanks.

But correct me if I'm mistaken.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:15 am

From an Irish Trad perspective you are correct.

Now if you want to play in Eb on a keyed "Irish" "D" flute these exersizes will give you a workout.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:15 am

yes, you can play some really neat tunes with keys (Tom Mcelvogue's compositions etc.) and the keys have saved my flute from jumping to its death from a table. I hate it when you have a suicidal flute....

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:18 pm

Other than slight additional cost (which can be recovered on resale if you don't like them), nominally extra weight, and slightly more maintenance is there any reason not to get keys?

I say get them if you want them.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:20 pm

they make finger twirls difficult...

'course that conical thing is no help either

do keep at least one Tipple

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:21 pm

So who's paying to get keys put on my Hamilton for me? Cuz I need them.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:31 pm

I.D.10-t wrote:Other than slight additional cost...

I suppose it depends on what you call "slight". $65 USD a pop isn't unusual. Factor that by six, and...

The low C#/Cnat combo alone cost me $350, if memory serves.

Of course, those are Noy prices. Some may charge less. But I think it was worth it.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:35 pm

$65 a key would be a great deal! The makers I've talked to have been in the $100 plus range for each key...so that slight cost may be more significant than you think.

Eric

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:07 pm

Okay, my bad. Just checked Noy's site, and it's $250 per key. That sounds right. "C foot with interlocking C, C#, separate $1,400"...I don't recall that, but maybe the shock induced some amnesia on my part. I presume the Eb is assumed there. "Keys, low C, C#, each $500"...I presume that would be just one without the other, but I don't see the point of it.

Might be his rates for the functioning C foot have gone up...it's been 3 years since I first placed my order.

I'm guessing that the $65 figure I came up with comes from checking out pipemaker prices. For as expensive as sets are, the keywork can be mercifully inexpensive by comparison to flutes. $75 per key isn't unusual as I recall.

Noy's prices are comparatively high, but the quality's high, too, and I only waited about a year. "Good, fast, cheap: pick two."

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