the origin and/or meaning of...

CelticBard · Post by **CelticBard** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:31 pm

Whack-fol-lol-de-ra. -from The Rocky Road to Dublin

With me whack fol the do fol the diddlely idle ay. -from The Galway Races

musha ring dumma do damma da
whack for the daddy 'ol -from Whiskey in the Jar

Do those words mean anything?

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:50 pm

Words that you can sing loudly to the right rhythm.

They're more akin to lilting than to lyrics.

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:32 pm

They are, in fact, power words taken from ritual chants originally used as part of some of the sun worship ceremonies practised by the ancient druids during vacations in the south of France. You will find these words widely used in many Celtic cultures, both in western Europe and certain areas around the eastern end of the Mediterranean. No-one can truthfully claim to know exactly what these words mean with any certanty, but there have been some plausible suggestions about a source in Siberia, carved into mammoth tusks still frozen into the tundra.

In order to appreciate these words fully, it is suggested you practise chanting them to yourself slowly and in silence. Work them into your breathing pattern, and refrain from bathing for a week before and after your practise to ensure the appropriate degree of celibacy. This is especially important during holy months such as July and August.

djm

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:58 pm

djm wrote:They are, in fact, power words taken from ritual chants originally used as part of some of the sun worship ceremonies practised by the ancient druids during vacations in the south of France. You will find these words widely used in many Celtic cultures, both in western Europe and certain areas around the eastern end of the Mediterranean. No-one can truthfully claim to know exactly what these words mean with any certanty, but there have been some plausible suggestions about a source in Siberia, carved into mammoth tusks still frozen into the tundra.

In order to appreciate these words fully, it is suggested you practise chanting them to yourself slowly and in silence. Work them into your breathing pattern, and refrain from bathing for a week before and after your practise to ensure the appropriate degree of celibacy. This is especially important during holy months such as July and August.

djm

I can confirm this to be 100% true.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:03 am

s1m0n wrote:Words that you can sing loudly to the right rhythm.

They're more akin to lilting than to lyrics.

They are a form of lilting, actually.

We get asked about this kind of thing several times a month at IGTF. No meaning whatsoever.

Redwolf

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:29 am

I've always felt they mean that whoever wrote it couldn't come up with anything that rhymed for that, so made it up, or whoever sang it couldn't remember what was 'supposed' to go there, so made it up, or, what*was* supposed to got there was not fit ofr the ears of the audience on hand at the time, so made up the substitute ... either way, it doesn't negate the other answers.

It certainly is fun to sing.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:49 am

The lyrics were about spanking, I thought.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:42 pm

ver iz zat doctor...

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:34 pm

anniemcu wrote:I've always felt they mean that whoever wrote it couldn't come up with anything that rhymed for that, so made it up, or whoever sang it couldn't remember what was 'supposed' to go there, so made it up, or, what*was* supposed to got there was not fit ofr the ears of the audience on hand at the time, so made up the substitute ... either way, it doesn't negate the other answers. It certainly is fun to sing.

It's actually more a matter of coming up with sounds you can make with your mouth that emulate the sounds you might make with instruments. Lilting got its start as a way of supplying music for dancers in the absence of instruments. It's only natural that it later got incorporated into songs as a sort of "bridge."

Redwolf

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:58 pm

Redwolf wrote:
anniemcu wrote:I've always felt they mean that whoever wrote it couldn't come up with anything that rhymed for that, so made it up, or whoever sang it couldn't remember what was 'supposed' to go there, so made it up, or, what*was* supposed to got there was not fit ofr the ears of the audience on hand at the time, so made up the substitute ... either way, it doesn't negate the other answers. It certainly is fun to sing.
It's actually more a matter of coming up with sounds you can make with your mouth that emulate the sounds you might make with instruments. Lilting got its start as a way of supplying music for dancers in the absence of instruments. It's only natural that it later got incorporated into songs as a sort of "bridge."

Redwolf

Right... I left out this one - "... or that whoever was 'playing the tune' didn't have any other instrument at hand, so made it up."

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:42 pm

Just think of Ramalama-ding-dong, and the like, found in a lot of American music from the 50's-60's. I'm sure that most cultures have used some form "singing" the music, and the words will most likely sound something like the instruments/rhythms used in their music.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:31 pm

shoobiedoowop.

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:45 am

Irish Scat-singing.

There are those who will tell you that words such as these are sung because either something rude or vulgar is going on, or the original (now alas, lost in antiquity) words are too explicit to be sung in current company. Believe it if you like.

Have a look at a few Elizabethan part-songs, especially when they get into the fol-di-rols... but fol-di-rols crop up all over the place.

My personal favourite whack-fol is the one
"Young women, they sing like birds in the bushes " X3
"And if I was a young man, I'd go beat them bushes
With my ri-fol-the-diddle-air-o, ri-fol-the-diddle-ay."

bozemanhc · Post by **bozemanhc** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:40 pm

These nonsense words in the old English songs are technically called a burden and have the same function as mentioned above.