Recording pipes onto a computer (need more volume)

[goldy]

My wife was kind enough to spend big the Christmas and got me some really decent multi-track recording software bundled with a quality audio interface to replace my keyboard's less than adequate 8 track sequencer with memory space for only 2 songs. I've been laying down tracks easily from my keyboard with the new software, but have struggled to get a decent recording of the pipes.

The music store that my wife bought it form recommended a condenser microphone, but the recommendation was that it would be a total waste to pay less than $400 for one. To get myself started, I've bought a basic omni-directional microphone for $40, which captures all notes of the chanter at a consistent sound level, but the overall sound level is really low. I have achieved adequate volume by cranking up the record level and maxing out all of the equalizer settings, but this makes the recording sound awful.

I am therefore seeking ideas from any of you who know a bit about microphones or have done some reasonable home recordings through your computers without spending a fortune on gear.

Do I look for some sort of pre-amp or are there alternatives?

Thanks

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Does the microphone you bought require phantom power? If so there may be a button on your interface with "48V" written under it. Turn that on and it may make a difference.

Good luck,

Pat.

[Tony]

Preamp... Get one.



http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180581

Most of the larger music stores in the states allow full refund if you return the product in new condition within their specified time frame. Are there any stores like this in Australia?

[avalk]

As both a recording engineer and pipe player - a couple of questions about
your gear.
Does your mic have a canon plug or a phone plug for connections. Often
a $40 mic will have a phone plug. If it does, be sure that you are not
connecting it into a line level input. That would give you very low volume.
It has to be plugged into a mic level input or use a mic preamp as suggested above.
Is the mic a dynamic or condenser mic? As mentioned above, a condenser type mic requires phantom power to operate.
A very good mic for recording pipes (for about $100) is a Shure SM-57
which is a dynamic mic with cardioid pattern (picks up sound primarily
from one direction hence less room noise).
Good luck with your recording.

[goldy]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll definitely look into the preamp option as my mic, although cheap, seems to do a reasonable job of representing the tone of my chanter and, when placed side-on the the chanter, captures the sounds from all tone holes at equal levels. I do have a 'phantom power' swich on the interface, but the instruction manual said that this was only for use with condenser mics so I'm a little scared to turn it on incase the 48 volts being sent into the mic damages it.

Avalk -
your input was very technical (I had to look up 'cardioid pattern' on the net to understand what you meant), which I guess I'd have to expect from a recording engineer. However, to answer your query, the mic does have a standard quarter inch phone plug. I followed the instruction manual of the audio interface in terms of which input to use for mic recording, but I'll double check it to be sure now that you've raised the concern. Since I am at work, I can't check the specs of the mic, but I recall a few things that meant nothing to me when I was looking at the box in the store (they might mean something to you):
Impedence - either 500 or 600ohm, Freq range - 500-12,000 hz, Sensitivity - 58 something or other

Cheers

[WireHarp]

Another option might be in your software itself. I don't know what you are using, but mine (Cakewalk Sonar Producer Edition) has an audio option labelled as "Normalize". THis will bring recorded audio up to a level of 0db and can make a significant difference in volume levels. This is assuming you have not recorded at too high a setting to begin with ( results in nasty clipping... 'bad noise').
I agree with the pre-amp idea.. mine is an ART Dual MP (from Sam Ash Music I think.. they are available all over the Net) and it was really reasonable in cost. Good luck.

Robert Mouland
www.wireharp.com

[djm]

I use two Sure SM57's with a <A HREF="http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/D ... html">DMP3 pre-amp</A>. Using too sensitive a mic can actually accentuate more ambient noise than you might want, necesitating the total silence of a studio (which is a bit overboard for home recording IMHO).

djm

[wolvy]

All you need is "more cowbell" !!

Seriously, you need a good mic pre. Assuming is isn't the phantom power issue that Patrick mentioned. My suggestion is to buy a good stereo unit. Look in the Sweetwater catalog. After you wipe the drool off of the pages, try to find something decent in your price range. I would consider calling them up and talking to them. In fact, I like dealing with them quite a bit. So yes, a mic pre is probably what you need.... (Unless your A/D box already has mic pre's built in ...like an MBox for example).

Just like pipes....recording gear is an endless cycle of upgrading and feeding the "gear lust" that will take hold of you.

[simonknight]

There are a number of places in the signal chain you can have problems.

1. Phantom power - you must find out if your mic needs this. A condenser will sound quiet and terrible without it. An dynamic mic may be damaged if you turn it on. A ribbon mic will be destroyed.

2. Input gain - it would be useful to know what your soundcard is. Most have at least some way of adjusting input gain on a channel to accommodate the big difference between line inout and mic levels. Inserting an external mic pre-amp gives you a lot more control in this area. I can also recommend ART gear. I use their valve pre-amps - they sound great and are cheap..

3. Impedance matching this can cause problems although your mic is high impedance so is unlikely to be causing the symptoms you note.

4. Output from the sound card. The faders in audio software usually have no effect on record levels. These are set my the digital mixing software or control panel for the sound card. Make sure these are not abnormally low.

5. Digital stuff. Some cards and software get theiir bits twisted. Watch out for MSB / LSB settings that switch around the low and high bytes of a 16 bit signal. If they're the wrong way round the signal will be very quiet.

If you can only record in 16 bit you need to keep the peak level as near to 0dB as you safely can. The pipes can produce hot transients so I suggest giving yourself about 6dB of headroom. If you card can record in 24bit use it - you can give yourself more headroom and still get the resolution.

If you can post details of your setup I can be more specific.

Have fun

[Beau Comiseau]

All you need is "more cowbell" !!

... I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.

[goldy]

STOP PRESS!

I called up the music store today to discuss the problem and they told me that my audio interface (Tascam US122L) has a preamp built in and should manage to pick up my pipes just fine with a reasonable mic. They then told me to bring in my mic for them to check it out, so I nipped home on my lunchbreak to get the mic and visited the store.

It turns out that my mic was absolutely rubbish and they had to crank their PA right up to get it to pick up anything coming through the mic. I discussed how I would love a condenser mic, but that I couldn't afford his previously quoted price of a minimum of $400. He showed me a good voice mic for $75 then strangely led me back to the condenser mic display cabinet. I reminded him "Um... do you remember me saying that I can't afford one of these?", but as luck would have it, he remembered that he had a twin set of condenser mics that sold for only $99. We tested them out through the PA and they picked up sound beautifully, even when held a good 15 inches away. The quality of sound was also great.

SOLD!

I am now the owner of a twin set of 'Behringer C2' pencil condenser mics, sold to me for $130 including two quality mic leads and a mounting stand to position the two mics around the chanter. I'm sure that these little beauties will do the job nicely.

Look out for a recording in the 'Upload your tunes' thread of the 'uilleannforum.com' forum in the next few weeks if you're interested in hearing the results.

Thanks again for all your input and advice.

[simonknight]

I'm glad you got it figured out. I have to say that this conforms to my experince of these kind of stores. The sales people either don't know what they're talking about or push products on which they get the most commission. You're better off researching the product you want and buying ftom a good online retailer.

I've heard that the C2s are good for the price and if you want to upgrade there are a number of very good choices under $200 US.

[goldy]

Just thought I'd mention that I've uploaded two recordings onto the other pipes forum that I made with the C-2 micropones (as promised). As someone with a slow dial-up internet connection at home, I recognise the value of keeping file sizes down for the purposes of downloading. Therefore, I've kept both recordings down to about 1MB.

You can check them out using the following link:
http://uilleannforum.com/forums/viewtop ... &start=105

Cheers.