How pipes look.

Darran · Post by **Darran** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:09 pm

dont suppose anyone could point me in the direction of the looks of woods used normally to make pipes, for comparitive reasons ofc

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:13 pm

This is a distraction, right? Peter you dog

Okay you got me!

There are lovely qualities about so many different makers pipes. Reid is exquisite to look at - specifically for the turnings and keywork. (Got a great last name too!) Harrington, though I have seen just a few, have a louder style (not talking about acoustics here) that may border on gauche, but still quite beautiful (too bad about mounting ivory over metal though!). Egan - sound ooooh sound!! Geoff Wooff pipes are undoubtedly a proper study in acoustics and superb craftsmanship, as are Koehler and Quinn's sets.

One thing I've learned over the last several years is that there are pipe makers who spend half a lifetime perfecting, finessing, experimenting and (after hours of marvelling about the greatness of those former historical makers) are able to come close to an ideal set of pipes. I think that it may take that long to really appreciate and understand what is need to be known to make a historical set of pipes.

Qualities that are subjective to visual appeal:

wood; colour, grain, tone
metal; brass, silver (colour)
end turnings; ivory, ivorite, wood tone
bellows; padded, woods, hinge, straps
build; equal spacing, clever positioning, drone switch placement, length of drones/regs
keys; style (Taylor/Reid/Egan etc...)
chanter; keys/popping valve, metal top wood top (probably have a topic entirely on chanter keys!!)

Qualities that are subjective to sound:

(this scares me!)
In tune (with itself)
In tune (to A440)
Concert pitch (potentially louder)
Flat pitch (potentially quieter and mellower)
type of wood
style of reed; material of reed
balanced set (drones and regs mostly at par with each other but not overshadowing the chanter) in order of chanter>regs>drones

FWIW.

billh · Post by **billh** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:26 pm

Darran wrote:dont suppose anyone could point me in the direction of the looks of woods used normally to make pipes, for comparitive reasons ofc

Darren, the 'diary' sections of uilleannobsession.com are a great source of photos of both recent and historic sets. All sorts of timbers represented there.

The 'classic' timbers would be ebony and boxwood, with african blackwood coming into fashion in the mid-20th centiury. Real european boxwood became difficult to source into recently, so you also see various "boxwood" sets that are something other than botanical 'buxus' species.

Rosewoods started to be used more commonly in the 20th century, but they were around a bit before that. Occasionally you'll see laburnum on a historic set, but it goes so black over the years that it can fool you into thinking it's blackwood! And lots of the really old sets (those not made of ebony or boxwood, that is) were made out of "something else", usually stained, identified usually as "fruitwood" but that could mean any of a number of things.. Google is your friend if you're looking for pictures of boxwood instruments (with various sorts of stains applied, usually).

Bill

P.S. - apologies for the long-windedness of my previous message

BigDavy · Post by **BigDavy** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:00 pm

Hi Peter

What if you are in the who cares if it looks like sh*t, it is what it sounds like that counts camp.

David

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:16 am

Paul Reid wrote:Egan - sound ooooh sound

Seriously there for a second, did you ever hear a fully working set by Egan? We were thinking about that a few years ago but at the time couldn't really think of even a single one that had all the bits going including an untampered original chanter.

Davy wrote: What if you are in the who cares if it looks like sh*t, it is what it sounds like that counts camp.

The problem there is that a really good maker who usually puts a lot of time into making a great sounding instrument will extend the care and detail required do do that to the exterior of his pipes.
In my experience by and large pipes that look made without love or vision also sound that way.

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:43 am

I like the pipes to sound good and look pleasing to the eye which is something the old craftsmen makers knew all about. There are instruments out by modern makers that look (imho) hideous with out of proportion bulbous mounts, keys with touchpieces way out of proportion.
Even the Taylor's with their functional ribbon keys have a certain elegance and are nicely proportioned.
I seem to recall reading that the Taylors used bone for some of their mounts - can anyone confirm this, and is it a viable material and do any modern makers use it ?

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:14 am

There are constant discussion among modern makers about a good replacement for ivory, all sorts of bone, horn, hoof, tusk and tooth have been experimented with but it is hard enough to find material with good availability, enough stability and size and so boxwood mounts have been the rage in recent years and very much out of neccessity.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:17 am

Peter Laban wrote:... and so boxwood mounts have been the rage in recent years and very much out of neccessity.

I find boxwood a nice replacement for ivory as far as my eye is concerned. It seems to blend well with most of the woods commonly used for pipes. As it ages, it turns into a lovely golden/orange color which I find very beautiful.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:27 am

I had a closer look at my C set today following this thread and after looking at the foty that I posted for Paulo(above).The foty is indeed very misleading and I thought the bass drone doesnae sit out that far surley

.Well I was right it doesnae.The Middle Drone sits snugly against the Bass Drone which isn't shewn in the picture,
Sorry aboot the quality of the pictures (camcorder on PC) but it is just to give ye a general idea and opens the debate up so feel free to snipe swipe or gripe..have fun

I won't be upset I promise ye after all I'm happy enough

and the new improved version I am working on

Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:36 am

So, where does the reed go here?

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:42 am

Wrang end Joseph this is the puck end

Uilliam

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:23 am

Peter Laban wrote:Seriously there for a second, did you ever hear a fully working set by Egan? We were thinking about that a few years ago but at the time couldn't really think of even a single one that had all the bits going including an untampered original chanter.

I'm going from memory (I'll have to find the cassette) but didn't Pat McNulty get a set of Egan pipes in C from a museum in Edinburgh, reed it up and record a few tracks on it for his album Autumn Apples?

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:52 am

Whats the make of that set? I see the Reg. Tuning pins near the stock, perhaps Rogge? He's capable of so many styles that I wont make a claim to be certain of it.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:07 am

Funnily enough

I was playing with Pat last night at the Celtic Connections Fest in Glaschu...he did indeed record 4 or 5 tracks in 1983/4 on an album called The Irish Union Pipes.(Which were later transferred to the album Autumn Apples in 1988)The set was on loan to him frae the museum for repair which he did.Pitched in C made fae ebony and silver.He also had another Egan set which was working and he passed that on a couple o years back to Cormack Connor and I believe the set is now in Gallaibh that too was working.
Pat is a real master on the regulators and we had a great time last night,I learned tons frae him.I have never played with him afore but we matched tune for tune just fine.His is very much the style of the old uns not surprising really as he was a founding member of NPU and has been playing for 51 years it was pure delight last night.No rush just good piping with a capital G.He was playing a Kennedy set frae Corcaigh and it just sang.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:11 am

Christopher wrote:Whats the make of that set? I see the Reg. Tuning pins near the stock, perhaps Rogge? He's capable of so many styles that I wont make a claim to be certain of it.

Sorry ,its frae the Rogge stable made by Heike his assistant, a pipemaker in her own right and a fine piper and lovely person to boot.What more could ye ask for?

uilliam