Warning: Controversy.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:06 pm

Because of previously noted imbalance on the brave new Board, I dangle this query.

Regarding the long wait or high price of used O'Riordans: does anyone pay the sincerest form of flattery by producing a very similar whistle at a lower price and with more availability? What is the closest thing to an Oriordan out there? I go to the whistle parties and try different and wonderful tooters but I have never become so conversant and observant in design that I bothered to look at 'em in that way......

Don't shoot the questioner, now.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:25 pm

And corollarily (yes, I made that up) is Pat grooming anyone to take his place when he retires?

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:45 pm

FJohnSharp wrote:And corollarily (yes, I made that up) is Pat grooming anyone to take his place when he retires?

Nope, many have asked and none have been invited....

that any of us know of.

Weeks, I don't know of any attempts at direct copies. I do know that I have dispensed of my O'Riordan in favor of other whistles that are much more stable in my hands, my Pink Ivory Rose for example. I have always described my experience with the O' as that of trying to tame a highly tuned race car: when it it on, sweeeeeet, when it is off, quite the opposite.

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:36 pm

I think the Rose is probably the closest whistle (in sound) to an O'Riordan. They're both disarmingly pure. I prefer the sound of the Rose. Probably the only whistle I've ever regretted selling.

Byll · Post by **Byll** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:42 pm

I have read the O'Riordan posts that have been offered, lately. If I may simply share my personal truths on the matters discussed...

Pat is special. Talking with him personally, dealing with him as a whistle smith and friend, being bathed in his clever correspondence, and being the recipient of more favors from him than I will ever deserve - I have been blessed . Dale calls him beloved...I concur, heartily.

I am fortunate enough to own 5 Travelers. If it were not for his generosity and kindness, I would not own them...They are in 5 keys that I need and use regularly. They reside in my whistle roll alongside a few others of each key, made by fine craftsmen. The O'Riordans are neither better nor worse than the other fine quality instruments. They are simply different. They have a sound and playing characteristics that are unique, and to me, highly desirable. I reach for them, often.

Pat has never entered the frenzy caused by his instruments and his decision to end his waiting list. He simply continues to produce beautiful instruments, keep his own counsel, and be a gentleman.

He has my respect and admiration.
Byll

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:35 pm

Byll, he has always been a pleasure to deal with. Although I don't know him well at all, my sense is of someone who already has what so many seek after and what all the self help books claim to try to lead to - command of himself from the inside out. People can practice martial arts and meditate for many years in search of that, while obviously falling short. As for the whistles, as I've already said, to my tastes, the Bflat, A and G Travelers are the single most pleasing to me of all whistles in those keys.

The question of whether Pat is or will groom a successor is easy enough for him to answer at any time. The other question, Weekenders, that's hard. I'm not sure I even understand it, and if I do, I simply don't think there are "equivalents" in that sense; a Rose by any other name, a Copeland, an O'Riordan...When you say produce a similar whistle at a lower price, i'm guessing you refer to the second hand market prices, as Pat's prices are probably about as low as one should or could go while retaining such quality. There are a good number of really terrific whistles out there, including those by new makers, especially in the key of soprano D. There is something almost offputting about the idea of cloning or trying to replicate a specific whistle; I guess I'm more comfortable with natural process and selection wherein various makers just trying to do their own thing and ocassionally really pleasantly surprising us in their own way.

Philo

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:33 pm

Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to own a Rose someday, but as far as playability, tone etc. the Greenwoods are the closest thing I've seen. Give David a shout - I bet he can make just about any detail available you could wish for on a tooter.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:39 pm

My Greenwood was very similiar tho the O'Riordan's I tred for a while, both in style of tone, and in whistle dimensions (O'Riordans are fat) Jessie has commented on this similarity before, too..
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=246271#246271
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=226543#226543
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=151319#151319

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:43 pm

Brian Lee wrote:Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose.

This is not my experience at all. The only Greenwood I had was nothing at all like the O'Riordon.

Thus, the great whistle debate continue to rage on.....

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:29 am

IDAwHOa wrote:
Brian Lee wrote:Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose.
This is not my experience at all. The only Greenwood I had was nothing at all like the O'Riordon.

Thus, the great whistle debate continue to rage on.....

I think it is important to note the obvious (something I've developed a great skill at), we all have different tastes in whistles. What is angelic to my ear may be another's "Leguminous f a r t"... GAWD I love that phrase! Thanks Nano!

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:04 pm

Thanks for replies. In response to Phil, I meant, a very close physical approximation of design features, including windway shape, fipple head relative dimensions, wall thickness, etc etc...

I wouldn't be surprised if a Japanese concern took on the design, copied it very closely and marketed it aggressively, given the going rate for a used one. That is what happened to guitars years ago. And now, some of the very best guitars are of Japanese manufacture.... There is a very vague line between downright design copy, versus, using the design and making conscious tweaks of
"improvement."

I know it all seems very dishonorable to even mention, but it's the way of things....

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:03 pm

Brian Lee wrote:Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to own a Rose someday, but as far as playability, tone etc. the Greenwoods are the closest thing I've seen. Give David a shout - I bet he can make just about any detail available you could wish for on a tooter.

I'd have to agree that the Greenwoods I've played are probably the most similar in tone and behavior to the O'Riordans I've played.

Doc

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:16 pm

I studied an O'Riordan carefully when I owned it... Pat's design is unlike any other in terms of construction. I feel that until someone either has the fortitude to disassemble a headjoint or Pat shows someonw how it's done, the secret of the sound may vanish with him. By looking at it though I seem to remember that if someone was willing to tinker a bit it could be copied.

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:02 pm

Brian Lee wrote:Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to own a Rose someday, but as far as playability, tone etc. the Greenwoods are the closest thing I've seen. Give David a shout - I bet he can make just about any detail available you could wish for on a tooter.

I wouldn't rush into this one. In order to play the role of nice guy I will refrain from further details. Go with a Rose or Abell.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Whitmores75087 wrote:
Brian Lee wrote:Greenwood whistles are quite similar. Much more so even that Fred Rose. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to own a Rose someday, but as far as playability, tone etc. the Greenwoods are the closest thing I've seen. Give David a shout - I bet he can make just about any detail available you could wish for on a tooter.
I wouldn't rush into this one. In order to play the role of nice guy I will refrain from further details. Go with a Rose or Abell.

I wouldn't characterize an Abell as remotely like an O'RIordan. Truly lovey whistles to be sure, but not O'Riordan-y* to my ear.

Doc

* Yes, yet another brand new adjective spontaneously created for your whistling pleasure by Doc Jones.