I am fed up and I am going.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:50 am

jbarter wrote:Is he gone yet?

Nyaah, never liked him anyway.

You sure he's gone?

You, sir, are evil. Ever give some thought to moderatin'?.............................................................. just kidding.

alurker · Post by **alurker** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:04 am

Sorry to see you go Steve, if you do feel you have to leave. For what it's worth, I thought your posts were well thought out and that you played by the rules. For the record, I also thought that the moderators did a reasonably good job given the nature of the discussions and the thankless nature of the job.

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:12 am

Joseph E. Smith wrote:Is there anyway we could arrange a "Town Meeting" on this matter to solicit ideas on how, if the forum is reinstated, what needs to be done to retain the outlet of political discussion but sans the ad hominem and other ugliness?

I'm perfectly comfortable with the moderators functioning as benign despots. Ain't no rights here folks. This is private property. The owner makes the rules. Lots of things work that way. This shouldn't be any exception.

Another thought is peer pressure. It's beyond my technological comprehension, but many times I've wanted to tag a post (not the poster) that I thought was inappropriate. If we could each "red card" offensive posts and all could see the "red cards", many (but not all) posters would be inclined to moderate their own behavior. Sort of like the feedback loop on e-bay.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:18 am

dwinterfield wrote:
Another thought is peer pressure. It's beyond my technological comprehension, but many times I've wanted to tag a post (not the poster) that I thought was inappropriate. If we could each "red card" offensive posts and all could see the "red cards", many (but not all) posters would be inclined to moderate their own behavior. Sort of like the feedback loop on e-bay.

A possibility, but its success would rely on the carded to care about whether they are carded or not. To date, there have only been a couple who have cared and modified their posting style to suit the rules... Steve Shaw being one of them.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:23 am

Happy trails, Steve.

he'll be back...

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:40 am

Joseph E. Smith wrote:
dwinterfield wrote:
Another thought is peer pressure. It's beyond my technological comprehension, but many times I've wanted to tag a post (not the poster) that I thought was inappropriate. If we could each "red card" offensive posts and all could see the "red cards", many (but not all) posters would be inclined to moderate their own behavior. Sort of like the feedback loop on e-bay.
A possibility, but its success would rely on the carded to care about whether they are carded or not. To date, there have only been a couple who have cared and modified their posting style to suit the rules... Steve Shaw being one of them.

I understand. That's when the despot tool comes into play.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:50 am

Despot isn't exactly the term I would chose... God Whale, on the other hand.....

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:56 am

I usually opt out of participating in such threads, but I today... well,
I guess I just feel like it. I have been here a few years now, and I've
noticed several threads like this one. The originators of these threads
tend to fall into two classes.

The first class (in which I include Steve) are folks who see a genuine
problem with the board, and care enough about the board to want
that problem fixed. They will possibly return if that problem is rectified.

The second class of "See 'ya" posters are the attention-seekers. If
they are given enough "don't go" posts, they feel validated and stick
around, because they got what they wanted. I don't post in those threads,
for obvious reasons.

I think Steve's grievance is valid to his own experience. But, I would
like to ask Steve and all who feel the same to reevaluate why they
are members of this board. This is a musical forum, built so that
people with a common interest in playing music can talk about
bloody playing music. After the Bifurcation, I thought it was great
that people could talk freely without letting political, geographical,
racial, or sexual bias get in the way (mostly). I think that if you find
yourself posting in the off-topic sections more than the on-topic
sections, you should ask yourself why you're really here. If this has
become a social forum for you, I guess that's fine, as long as you go
out once in a while. But if you come here for your daily dose of
Republican/Democrat/American/Martian bashing, then something
might well be amiss.

I would not mourn the passing of the Political Forum, for it had largely
ceased to be reasoned discussion, and become a festival of black-and-
white viewpoints. And I get enough of that from American politics.
But the main reason that I rarely post there is that I don't want a
memory of my views to color people's reaction to my on-topic
posts. (And if you think that doesn't happen, you're fooling yourself.)

I'm sorry for Steve's leaving. Though I didn't always understand his
prose (which may lose something in the trip across the Atlantic), I
frequently enjoyed the way he said things. But, I didn't see him much
as I perused the On-Topic fora, so if I didn't read the Pub or
Pol/Rel/Con Forums, I may not have realized he was gone.
I think that's sad.

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:21 am

One of the boards I go to has an anonymous moderator, in order to prevent claims of moderating based on personality. It was instated only a few months ago and seems to be working.

This same board has a political subsection which I rarely, if ever, visit, and I've just posted on it asking for the members' views on moderation and political discussion. If anything useful comes out of it I will email you Dale.

I'd give the link but it's paid subscription only so you wouldn't be able to read it anyway.

tansy · Post by **tansy** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:25 am

Maybe I am just getting older, but I feel so open to just sbout any point of view, and rarely take offence. Wasn't always that way. I am very political, though not a rep. or a dem, more of an enviromental whacko with the quest for freedom in my eye. The reason I miss the board which I rarely posted to is because all the points of view from the people I have come to enjoy as friends, at least in my own mind. There are some very, very special people here.
Headin' back over to the uilleann board and practice being surly

Steve, maybe you should come over there for a visit.
All the best, Tansy
I used correct capital letters in an attempt to show my sincereity.

jkwest · Post by **jkwest** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:43 am

Aww!! Mr. Shaw!!! I actually admired your view of politics more than most! And, I had completely different opinions than yours! It was my blog you were talking about, and I had no problems with what fiddler and yourself had to say. I didn't take offense and still enjoyed the back and forth bantering we shared in my short time here. I will admit that I miss the political board, and that I look for any post in the pub that may offend the light hearted. I just enjoy the camaraderie of everyone. I haven't picked up a musical instrument in well over a month and yet I continue to come back here to see what is new on the boards.

You will be sorely missed Mr. Shaw. Please reconsider your decision. You've even lead me to try and get some Doom Bar Bitter imported to California.

Jake

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:47 am

dwinterfield wrote: As for questionable behavior, I did not see it coming from just one side of the left/right divide. Mostly I saw bad behavior that began when participants started characterizing another participant's views.

Indeed, the first post here alleges that, "most of those who now support the continued closure were the right-wingers who frequently upped the ante in threads to get things locked." That's quite a characterization of a lot of people I would never consider "right-wingers."

I think a lot of people (including the mods) were pigeon-holed by the politics of the people they argued with the most. It was weird to see some very liberal people treated like right-wingers because they sparred with Jack, for example.

However, I also noticed a gradual decline in decorum that in the last few weeks of the rubber room. There have always been argumentative remarks in posts, but I started to see smaller posts consisting solely of snippy remarks targeting specific Chiffers.

I actually suspected the mods would shut it down at least temporarily, as I perceived a general mood of increasing animosity and decreasing restraint.

Caj

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:54 am

I did witness some of the ugliness that warrented a shut down of at least temporary nature on at least one thread. I did also see that for the vast majority, the discussions were civil, and when not, the mods stepped in, and with exceptionally even hand, dealt with the offenses. I, for one, will miss Steve greatly if he leaves, and already miss the Controversial Issues board. I love whistles, whistling, and (most

) whistlers, but, believe it or not, my life does not actually revolve solely around whistles. Especially in times such as this, with war and deep political division, discourse and opportunity to educate, learn and vent is a golden commodity.

Please give us our playpen back.

I promise to behave myself... mostly.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:57 am

Caj wrote:
dwinterfield wrote: As for questionable behavior, I did not see it coming from just one side of the left/right divide. Mostly I saw bad behavior that began when participants started characterizing another participant's views.
Indeed, the first post here alleges that, "most of those who now support the continued closure were the right-wingers who frequently upped the ante in threads to get things locked." That's quite a characterization of a lot of people I would never consider "right-wingers."

I think a lot of people (including the mods) were pigeon-holed by the politics of the people they argued with the most. It was weird to see some very liberal people treated like right-wingers because they sparred with Jack, for example.

However, I also noticed a gradual decline in decorum that in the last few weeks of the rubber room. There have always been argumentative remarks in posts, but I started to see smaller posts consisting solely of snippy remarks targeting specific Chiffers.

I actually suspected the mods would shut it down at least temporarily, as I perceived a general mood of increasing animosity and decreasing restraint.

Caj

Yes, what is it about the last month or so that has dropped the floor out from under folks? I've noticed it, not just here, but in general. Despair? Fear? Change of laundry detergent?

jsluder · Post by **jsluder** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:00 am

anniemcu wrote:Yes, what is it about the last month or so that has dropped the floor out from under folks? I've noticed it, not just here, but in general. Despair? Fear? Change of laundry detergent?

Winter.