Numbers instead of notation

[beginner]

Hi all

My 8 year old daughter is learning the whistle at the moment and is learning songs by using numbers i.e. 1 to 6 not notation. Can anyone provide the numbers to enable her to play Merry Blacksmith, St Annes Reel, Father Kelly & kilfernoa Jig.

Can anyone advise on a site to learn notation??

Thanks

[ThorntonRose]

Numbers don't convey enough information. How does one know duration and rhythm?

I did a quick Google search on "learn music notation". At first glance these sites look OK:

http://esvc001097.wic013u.server-web.co ... th/bt1.htm
http://datadragon.com/education/reading/
http://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=65

[bradhurley]

Numbers don't convey enough information. How does one know duration and rhythm?

One knows duration and rhythm by listening to good players playing the tune you want to learn. In fact this number system isn't much different from Irish "pub scrawl" notation which looks like this:

DGG BGG D'GG BGG

Kind of like abc notation but without any indication of time. But an Irish player can look at that and know it's a jig. (The apostrophe next to the D there indicates the second octave...you could also use lowercase d to do that as in abc notation).

If you have the tune in your head, all you really need is the notes, not their duration or even the time signature, in order to play the melody. But I'm not sure how well that would work for a total beginner.

[Whitmores75087]

This is not what you asked for, but it's useful. Using this chart you could write our numbers for you little one.
http://www.moceltic.org/docs/whistle_chart.html

[MTGuru]

Kevin, here's an idea for you. Instead of thinking about numbers, think about letter names. That is, every hole of the whistle has a letter name. The bottom hole is called D, the next hole is called E, etc. When you get to G, the alphabet starts over again with A and B (the top two holes). The only tricky one is C#, which is no holes (all holes open), and C natural, which is a special fingering (close the A and G holes). For an 8 year old, this way will be just as easy as numbers. If you forget, any whistle fingering chart will remind you the names of the holes. And voilà -- you're already halfway to reading music.

Now find a music book or internet page with a reference chart that tells you the names of the notes on the (treble) staff. This is a little trickier, but not much. In my experience, kids can learn to identify the note names pretty quickly. The mnemonics FACE (spaces) and Every Good Boy Does Fine (EGBDF - lines) can help. Keep the chart out as a handy reference.

Next find the sheet music for a simple tune your daughter wants to play, preferably in the key of G (one sharp) or D (two sharps). Sit down with a pencil, and play a game of writing the names of notes under the notes, in the space between the staves. Take your time, and this doesn't have to be in order. Pick a note, identify it, and write it down. Pick another note, etc. With each, have your daughter play that note on the whistle by covering all the holes down to that letter hole. Do this in one sitting or several. When finished, all the notes are identified, and you're 90% of the way to reading music.

Finally take the music page and have your daughter slowly play each note she's written down, one at a time, in sequence. Hey, she can recognize the tune! With a bit of practice, she can probably even play the right note lengths from her memory of the tune. And what do you know, she's reading music.

Yes, there's eventually more to it than that. This system takes a bit of homework and study, and it's not instant gratification. But reading letters is really no more complicated that reading numbers (which is called tablature), and it opens up the whole world of written music. And when she's ready to look at the special ABC music notation used for folk music, that's even easier, because she can just read the names of the notes right from the page.

Hope that helps!

[Adrian]

I think MTGuru's suggestion is excellent.

A free music software program like Finale might also help as she can watch, listen and later play along, as the tune is played. Children at that age often like to learn things from computers.

[Steffi]

This is one of my favorite tunes, actually...

Merry Blacksmith

6 ’6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 5’ 4’ 6’ 5’ 6’ 1 5’ 5’ 6’ 5' 3’ 4’ 5’
6’ 6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 5’ 4’ 6’ 5’ 0 6’ 1 2 4 6 (repeat)
2’ 2’ 3’ 4’ 4’ 5’ 6’ 6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 5’ 4’ 6’ 5’ 6’ 1 5’ 5’ 6’ 5’ 3’ 4’ 5’
2’ 2’ 3’ 4’ 4’ 5’ 6’ 6’ 2 1 2 4 2 2 1 6’ 5’ 4’ 6’ 5’ 0 6’ 1 2 4 6 (repeat)

The apostrophes ( ' ) mean that the note is played in the higher octave.

Is this the type of thing you were looking for?

~Steffi

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[Father Emmet]

In fact this number system isn't much different from Irish "pub scrawl" notation which looks like this:

DGG BGG D'GG BGG

Kind of like abc notation but without any indication of time.

I put a dot over notes of longer duration.

[wd40]

songs with numbers. Try Erik the flutemakers site

[MTGuru]

Is this the type of thing you were looking for?

That's interesting. But it also illustrates my underlying point. I find all those numbers a lot harder on the eyes and brain than D d A B A F A etc. Then again, I'm brainwashed by 15 centuries of using letters of the alphabet to represent notes. (And, yes, I know that solfège exists, and that other non-Western traditions may use different notation.)

Personally, I hate threads where someone asks for something specific, and everyone tells you something else. "How can I sort my mail in Outlook Express?" "OE sucks, use program blahblah instead." That sort of thing.

But in this case, I just don't see the value of using numbers, when an 8 year old can just as easily learn letter name notation, and have a wonderful musical tool they can use for the rest of their life. In my opinion, people who start by relying on tablature systems eventually come to regret it.

Just my opinionated opinion.

[Steffi]

Personally, I hate threads where someone asks for something specific, and everyone tells you something else. "How can I sort my mail in Outlook Express?" "OE sucks, use program blahblah instead." That sort of thing.

Agreed.

In the long run, using numbers is probably not the best idea. In the short, "This is the greatest tune ever but I just can't figure out that fast part" run, I don't see that it could do much harm. Especially if the number system has already been learned, say from one of those little instruction papers that come with some whistles. ( I'm just guessing here, I've never actually seen numbers used before.) *shrug*

~Steffi

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[Faelan]

In my opinion, people who start by relying on tablature systems eventually come to regret it.

Growing up, I learned to play the guitar using tablature.

I am now trying to learn how to read music. It's not too complex and I got the basics down but I do really wish I had taken the time to learn to read music in grade school when I had an instructor available.

[Martin Milner]

In my opinion, people who start by relying on tablature systems eventually come to regret it.

Growing up, I learned to play the guitar using tablature.

I am now trying to learn how to read music. It's not too complex and I got the basics down but I do really wish I had taken the time to learn to read music in grade school when I had an instructor available.

I did learn to read music by the time I was six, but still used tablature for playing guitar.

Steffi, there are several beginning whistle books that show both numbers (or fingering) as well as standard musical notation.

A good starting place for beginners is the "Instant Tin Whistle" series by Dave Mallinson:



These images come from Hobgoblin Music's website.

The benefit is that the beginner can see how the fingering relates to the standard notation, and learn standard notation along the way.