What makes a "good" generation?

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:38 am

Peter Laban wrote:
but I think I may have to fill the fipple in order to make playing the upper octave easier.
Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

I don't really find that it does any real good either, but whatever works for you. One thing that I don't like about filling the cavity is that the sticky stuff seems to attract junk and leaves your whistle smelling extra rank.

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:39 am

Peter Laban wrote:
but I think I may have to fill the fipple in order to make playing the upper octave easier.
Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

I've done this to a lot of whistles, and it's only made a real difference once: I had a LBW that would not, for anything, play above the 2nd octave F#. Poster Puddy fixed it right up, and it's a half decent whistle, now. I swear.

Quinny · Post by **Quinny** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:59 pm

Peter Laban wrote:
but I think I may have to fill the fipple in order to make playing the upper octave easier.
Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

Peter, you're right!

Dug out the Feadog and removed the blu-tak from the fipple and found there to be no difference in playablilty. I must have got better since the time I first tested it and that may account for the difference.

Hooray! Fiddling is not a must, but practice is.

nikiarrowsmith · Post by **nikiarrowsmith** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:04 pm

Peter Laban wrote:
arnie wrote:Generations seem to have poor quality inspection.
<groan> The latest excercise on the subject

All the same things that apply to any whistle would be the obvious reply to the original question.

sorry

but thanks to all for the replies

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:02 pm

You're fine. The groan was more to arnie's quality control issue, obligatory reply in these discussion it seems.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:14 pm

Ah, the sixties, those were the days (not to mention the nights, which I really shouldn't mention). Anyway, let's try this yet again; instead of just vague recollection, this time I actually just now took all the old Gens out of their respective jars (yes, I pickle my Gens) and laid into the lot - airs, jigs, reels, scales, special attention to that high B, etc. - with the following results.

- Both Bflats, a red top brass and a blue top nickel are quite lovely and easy to play in both octaves - no issues.

- Both red top Cs were surprisingly very good - really a joy to play and pretty darn close to my legendary Golden Tones.

- Three red top Ds and the one blue top (nickel) were also just fine and fun to play in every way.

- Even the little blue top nickel high F was a joy with no issues and no dogs came running up on the high B.

So, let's see: that's nine Gens in four different keys, both brass and nickel, all randomly purchased throughout the years (mostly in the nineties), and not an issue in the lot with respect to tone, playability or anything else including cosmetics.

As an older woman from that old hamburger ad used to say, where's the beef? Is it because they're labelled "British Made"? Did I get, purely by chance, the only nine playable Gens ever made?

Philo

walrii · Post by **walrii** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:32 pm

I wonder if "good whistle" equates, in some fashion, to "matches my natural breath pattern." I'm wondering if each of us has a subconscious expectation about what "normal" breath control should feel like. When a whistle matches our natural breathing pattern, we like it and call it good.

m31 · Post by **m31** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:57 pm

walrii wrote:I wonder if "good whistle" equates, in some fashion, to "matches my natural breath pattern." I'm wondering if each of us has a subconscious expectation about what "normal" breath control should feel like. When a whistle matches our natural breathing pattern, we like it and call it good.

Gosh, what to do about the hyperventilators?

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:07 pm

walrii wrote:I wonder if "good whistle" equates, in some fashion, to "matches my natural breath pattern." I'm wondering if each of us has a subconscious expectation about what "normal" breath control should feel like. When a whistle matches our natural breathing pattern, we like it and call it good.

I think you are on to some of it. I met a whistler in person from the board once, And after we played some he asked why my whistles had a better voice than his. So I tried his whistles and his eyes rolled and asked how I made his sound like mine. It was very simple. He was not moving enough air through them.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:32 pm

Peter Laban wrote:Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

Peter, in my experience, depending on the individual whistle, it sometimes does good, sometimes not, and seldom does harm. I have a couple of Feadóg Pros that were real scratchers, especially high g and above ready to break into harmonic cacaphony at any moment. The blue tack tweak calmed them right down, and strengthed the bottom end a bit, too. Nice playing whistles they are now.

If the blue tack makes no difference in a given whistle, it takes 10 seconds to pull it out again, and nothing's lost. Or leave it in and nothing's lost. In either case, there's no harm in trying it IMHO.

The only whistles I've found made positively worse are Clarke Sweetones. The putty ruins both the intonation and characteristic tone.

Is your impression of the tweak by reputation, or have you tried it yourself? Just curious. Slán!

Post by **Dale** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Peter Laban wrote:
but I think I may have to fill the fipple in order to make playing the upper octave easier.
Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

I've played around with this myself. I think the difference is either very subtle (and unreliable) or nonexistent.

A-Musing · Post by **A-Musing** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:00 pm

1. Tom Brokaw IS a punk.

2. What makes a "good" Generation?

3. Frankly, my dear, I don't GIVE a durn...

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:12 pm

Peter Laban wrote:
but I think I may have to fill the fipple in order to make playing the upper octave easier.
Never mind me because I never found any benefit in it but isn't filling usually recommended to strengthen the low notes? Or is it really what I think it is, that little black magic, the placebo that does whatever you think it will

This difference of opinion is eternal. But FWIW, I just tried my own "Karate Kid" experiment with the Gens: tack on...tack off...tack on...tack off....tack on...tack off..... I hear a difference for the better in three of the four whistles. In two of them it's a pronounced difference for the better, at least to my own subjective ear. It worsened only one whistle, my Gen high F, which lost its merry chirp and got bland. It also makes my Walton's Mello-D better.

YMMV, obviously.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:26 am

Is your impression of the tweak by reputation, or have you tried it yourself? Just curious.

I have tried it on Oak, Generation and Feadog and didn't notice anything significant although it dulled the Oak out of it's usual brightness.

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:48 am

I have 4 Nickel Feadog Ds, 3 brass Feadog Ds and a Pro (and a dozen or more Feadog tubes from whistles I broke the heads off by sitting down with them in my back pocket...

)

Some have the windway void filled and some don't. After reading this I just dug them all out and played them. I guessed which ones were filled and which weren't as I played and put them aside accordingly.

The pile I guessed were filled contained 2 of the brass, 3 of the nickel and the Pro (to be honest, I clearly remembered that the Pro was filled, so I started with that one). The other pile had 1 brass and 1 nickel.

When I looked it turns out that I was right on every one.

Seems to me that there is a detectable difference. A fraction less harshness, and the bell note will take a little bit more of a push before breaking.

If I had not started with one I knew was filled, and if I hadn't played them one after the other in one go, I suspect the difference would have been too slight for me to have guessed right 100%.

Proves nothing, just took up 20 minutes of a dull morning.