Open-ended string instrument question.

[Caj]

Hiya,

I've been playing concertina exclusively for about 6 years, and am wondering about the possibility of taking up a string instrument on the side, as penance.

I was wondering if anyone would evangelize one instrument over another for me to try, or make suggestions based on my situation.

Here is my situation:

• Our local session has no fiddles, no mandolins, no banjos, no ukes. We have 1-2 concertinas, 1-3 whistles, a hammered duclimer, a piper, a bodhran, and sometimes a guitarist. It's odd, we actually don't have 12 guitarists show up. I guess the cold snap killed them off.
• In terms of guidance and possible instruction: I am fortunate to live near some very talented trad musicians in just about every string instrument---except the uke.
• I have smallish hands, though my fingertips feel stubby and clumsy when I try to hold down just one string on my friend's little mandolin.
• I want something that can provide volume--not loudness, but volume. Depth. Something that can put a little meat on the bare-bones reediness of a concertina and whistle.
• Since I already play the concertina, I want something more or less complementary. Something that can fill roles a concertina can't.
• I am extremely left-handed, enough that I absolutely have to play left-handed. This is not too big a deal, although it means I have never had the opportunity to really try out someone else's instrument.
• If I may say so, I am a fast learner.

I guess that's it. What do you think?

Caj

[buddhu]

I played guitar for 35 years and thought I was enjoying myself. Then I started playing mandolin, and learned the difference between thinking I was enjoying myself and knowing I was.

Mandolin is very portable. For Celtic music which is often in G Maj or D Maj the notes of the major scales fall right under the fingers of a smallish to medium sized hand in first position. Open chords are easy, and the infamous stretches only really come into it if you want to learn bluegrass chop chords (which I can now play, but I tend to simulate chop in my own style by playing open chords and muting). Mandos are also surprisingly good for blues.

I'd say that for the kind of music I want to play (folk and IrTrad, mostly), mandolin is easier to learn and play than guitar... YMMV, obviously.

The cramped, clumsy feeling that your fingers are to chubby for the neck is simply a question of getting used to the feel of such a small instrument. Some great mando players have huge hands.

From what you describe of your session, what with the relative thinness on the ground of guitar players, you might find that there is some sonic space to be filled around those frequencies, so octave mandolin might also be a good choice. A bit more work to play tunes, but a better instrument for chord accompaniment.

As for volume, mandolins can be quite loud. A lot of it is down to pick gauge and technique. A ToneGard can also help get the most kick out of a mando. Realistically, banjos and squeezeboxes will drown out anything, but a mando or octave mando will fit in just fine.[/i]

[s1m0n]

If it's loudness you're after, there's no beating a tenor banjo. A 17 banjo isn't all that much bigger than a mandolin, although considerably heavier.

Being a melody instrument, it'll be easier to transfer concertina mojo to the new instrument than a chordbanger.

[buddhu]

I love TB as well, although I sold all mine when mando fever struck.

If you're tough enough to take the slings and arrows aimed at banjo players (and bodhran players and sometimes squeezebox players), it's a great instrument.

Short scale ones are a bit tricky to tune and intonate at GDAE, as they weren't designed to drop that low really, so chords can sound a bit off. For tunes, though, tenors are really fun. Triplets and rolls sound great. Try listening to Barney McKenna of the Dubliners and Gerry O'Connor to see if that's what you want to play.

As for mando, try listening to Andy Irvine from Planxty (although he often uses a mandola or a bouzouki too) and John and Barney from the Dubs playing their hornpipe duets. Also, the Furey's version of Bill Hart's is played on mando and gives a great idea of how it works in ITM.

[Martin Milner]

[*] I have smallish hands, though my fingertips feel stubby and clumsy when I try to hold down just one string on my friend's little mandolin.

This could be because mandolins have 8 strings 4 in pairs, and you're supposed to play a pair of srtings at once.

Seriously though, I'd second the Mandolin suggestion. I used to play Mandolin but had trouble hearing myself in a noisy pub session, but later (after going over to fiddle, the instrument of my youth) realised it was just that I had a quiet Mandolin.

The Mandolin is small enough to allow you to carry your concertina as well without tearing your arms out of their sockets, and should you choose to try fiddle at some future time, the fingering is the same so your tunes will transfer much more easily, allowing you to focus more on the problems of bow control.

Banjos are good at filling out the lower frequencies, so if you feel your group are a bit top-end heavy, that, or the Octave Mandolin suggestion, are good choices, but either will be bulkier and heavier then a Mando.

[rh]

If it's loudness you're after, there's no beating a tenor banjo. A 17 banjo isn't all that much bigger than a mandolin, although considerably heavier.

Being a melody instrument, it'll be easier to transfer concertina mojo to the new instrument than a chordbanger.

Probably wouldn't be hard to convert one to lefty, either -- no soundposts or tonebars inside as the top is just a drumhead. Just switch out the nut and flip the bridge and it's ready.

[Lorenzo]

Just switch out the nut and flip the bridge and it's ready.

And don't forget to reverse the strangs!

I think you'll like the mandolin better than TB, Caj, or even a short neck octave mandolin.

[rh]

I think you'll like the mandolin better than TB, Caj, or even a short neck octave mandolin.

or maybe the banjo-mandolin, so you can be sure everyone will hear you.

[Lorenzo]

I don't know why, but that's one instrument (banjo-mandolin) I have no desire to own. Nor play (same with banjo-uke)! My uncle has a nice F2 Gibson mando he bought when he was just a teen, but about 10 years ago he bought a banjo-madolin to take to the senior citizens center on Tue nights...so he could be heard amongst all the horns, accordians, fiddles, and pianos!

[rh]

I don't know why, but that's one instrument (banjo-mandolin) I have no desire to own.

oh i think i might have an idea why...

[buddhu]

I don't know why, but that's one instrument (banjo-mandolin) I have no desire to own. Nor play (same with banjo-uke)! My uncle has a nice F2 Gibson mando he bought when he was just a teen, but about 10 years ago he bought a banjo-madolin to take to the senior citizens center on Tue nights...so he could be heard amongst all the horns, accordians, fiddles, and pianos!

I agree. I've not played a banjolin/mandolin-banjo, but combining the properties of two of the most sustain-challenged string instruments seems to offer a very limited potential.

Fine for those who want 'em, but I feel no urge to rush out and buy one.

[wolvy]

I own banjo-mandolins and banjo-ukes and can honestly say - these are the most ugly sounding instruments on the planet. The tone is terrible. But it you want loudness - they are the way to go.

You mentioned you wanted volume. The mandolin can be a bit shy in
a big session. I'd recommend fiddle if you are ok with the learning curve.

- t

[hyldemoer]

You mentioned you wanted volume. The mandolin can be a bit shy in
a big session. I'd recommend fiddle if you are ok with the learning curve.

- t

Sometimes that shyness is a plus.
I've seen fiddle players set their fiddle aside and take up their mandolin at sessions when they were presented with a song they didn't know and wanted to quietly work it out by ear while the group was playing it.

A friend who is left handed but has been playing guitar right handed for a couple decades tried playing mandolin right handed for quite a while before he gave up an invested in a left handed mandolin.
He bought a Mid-Missouri before they were put under.

I've heard good things about Deering's Goodtimes banjos. They make a left handed tenor.

[harpmaker]

If it weren't for the volume issue, I would suggest a mountain dulcimer. Very easy to pick up and start playing...

[rh]

He bought a Mid-Missouri before they were put under.

Mid-mo is gone, but Michael Dulak is apparently back building mandolins under another brand name -- the new handle is Big Muddy Mandolins.