Some things just never go away....

[Eivind]

This is one of those frustrated posts;
where you have nobody relevant at hand to talk out your frustration to, and so the chiffboard is the only place I can rant away and have the tiniest sense of being heard and, eventually, understood. *sigh*

WHY is the flute still hard to hold properly after almost 3 years?

WHY do I cramp up the fingers still, so that I cant let them fly ever so lightly over the holes and create music of oh such beauty and grace? (I saw that 70's YouTube clip of Molloy playing Bucks of Oranmore and man, he seemed to just fold his hands around something that just floated in front of him. A flute; mind you..)

WHY am I still struggling with the tone and tuning of the Cnat and C#?
(I got myself an Olwell blackwood fluate 10 months ago, it's probably nothing wrong with the flute. Darn)

Oh, well
I feel better now
E.

[Cathy Wilde]

I share your pain. Especially in the floaty-fingers department. Darned giant guys playing wee little Eb flutes, grrr, grrr, grrr ....

[RudallRose]

pretty simple answer, I think.

>>WHY is the flute still hard to hold properly after almost 3 years? <<

Poor posture and hand position. But without seeing you, it's hard to say. I'd bet it's the location of the thumbs, which all problems begin typically.

>>WHY do I cramp up the fingers still, so that I cant let them fly ever so lightly over the holes and create music of oh such beauty and grace? <<

Simple: you're probably squeezing too hard on the flute. That comes from poor hand positions and balance points. (you mention the Molloy video....did you notice his RH pinkey stays on the flute *even when he's rolling a low E* ?? That should say a lot)

>>WHY am I still struggling with the tone and tuning of the Cnat and C#? <<

Chances are pretty good you're using a bad fingering for the Cnat. (I presume you mean middle Cnat, not the very low one). Different flutes are better with a certain Cnat fingering than another. Most Olwells do well with OXOXXX (my preferred one).
I have a Wilkes that prefers OXXOOO or OXXXOO
The other fingering being too sharp and *too close to C#* to be accurate.

Hope these ideas help.
They may not be exact solutions to your precise issues, but I trust they get you thinking in the right direction.

dave m
(I got myself an Olwell blackwood fluate 10 months ago, it's probably nothing wrong with the flute. Darn)

[beowulf573]

So here's a related question, how do folks manage to use different fingerings for Cnat on different flutes? I have trouble switching between the different ones, muscle memory takes over and I end up using the fingering I've used the most over the past few months.

[Eivind]

Hi folks,
thanks for the replies

My Olwell seem to prefer this (middle) Cnat:
oxx xox
But I am willing to test your suggestions through an afternoon or so,
perhaps I need to push it more air-wise..? I'd rather push a Cnat into behaving properly than having to fall back to tune it down - if you see what I mean? It leaves that awful, weak "toot" of a Cnat...arrgh :-|

It also seems this is better for the C#:
ooo oxo
What is your experience in this department, David?

Regarding the holding/posture thing, I never had a tutor since those few first days at Clancy week, so I may very well have picked up a thing or two; badhabitwise

[trish]

Hi
To add to the good advice given already, something else you can try with those 'difficult' notes is to sing them. Sing the c nat, a long oooooo (or eeee or whatever you prefer) then play it, a long tone. Work on those notes for a little bit like this (playing long tones) then put them into a tune and see if it helps.
cheers
Trish

[I.D.10-t]

>>WHY is the flute still hard to hold properly after almost 3 years? <<

Poor posture and hand position. But without seeing you, it's hard to say. I'd bet it's the location of the thumbs, which all problems begin typically.

I have found that the section of Terry McGee’s site called "On the Manner of Holding the Flute" has helped me with my grip. It is found here...

Nicholson on Tone

[peeplj]

I think the answers to all of this come down to time and familiarity.

On your difficulties in holding / balancing / controlling the flute, have you had another flutist watch you and check your position and posture? Sometimes that can be a world of help.

--James

[crookedtune]

Great thread. I've been quietly wresting with similar issues. I have NO problems on my Sweetheart F, VERY FEW problems on my Tipple D, but some light hand-cramping on my Seery D, (which is supposed to be my main instrument).

I've found that playing very often, but for small time intervals (like 10 minutes), is helping me build the strength and flexibility I need. Also I try to stretch and relax the arm, neck, back and hand muscles before I play.

I've only been at it a few months, but I'm seeing a lot of improvement. But I have to say, the embouchure was much less a challenge for me than left hand fatigue!

[Eivind]

Hey Dave,
that Cnat fingering could be a good idea!
It also required me to slightly change my embouchure, so I may just hit two flies in one smack
I'll work on it for a while and see how it turns out.

Thanks;
Eivind

[RudallRose]

Glad you found something useful in all that!

beowulf asks about using different fingings.....and how.
well...Mr. Nicholson actually used about 11 different fingerings for C-natural, all designed not for tone clarity as much as for dexterity and convenience.

For instance, some have difficulties with C-# coming from a D very quickly (dependent on the fingering). W/ an 8key flute, you can finger middle D as such (oxx xxx) and instead of going to your C# (lifting two fingers quickly) you can use your RH pinkey to depress the first foot plug (C#)
Same effect and so much easier and speedier.

So it's a matter of knowing and practicing the various fingerings and trying them in convenient places dictated by the musical pattern at hand.

No one said flute playing was easy! Otherwise everybody would do it!

dm

[Eivind]

hey folks,
sorry to drag this one out of the grave but...:

I)
@David: The oxo xxx Cnat works fine. I stopped playing the flute for a year or so, but have started to pull it out again every now and then.
The lips still need to get used to that particular fingering, though. Meaning: When starting to play, I have to find the embouchure that gets the Cnat right...beause that one seems to be good for most other notes. So when I hit the Cnat, I know I'm onto something...

II)
Still cramping up, though. But I'm experimenting with thumb positions, and every now and then I find a good one.
When I do, it mostly feels like I'm accidentally gonna drop the flute. But the hands feel loose, and the thumb does not strain.

However, finding that same posture/hold, and combining it with point II) above, seems tricky...

Good to see this forum still kicking

Best regards;
Eivind

[Aanvil]

Eivind, have someone take a few photos of your hands playing/holding your flute or do a little web cam and post it to Youtube.

That way they can see what you are doing.

Its just guessing otherwise.

[dlambert]

Isn't it super C natural anyway? Mike Rafferty plays a note somewhere between Cnat and C#. The students at Irish Arts Week a few years ago couldn't figure which note he was playing. So there ya go.

[Eivind]

Do you mean "C Supernatural"?
Wow, that sounds unearthly...

Eivind